T Nation

First Time HRT, Help


Hello guys, this is my first time steping out into the formus scene... Well my names jayden and im a 22yr old male with a few years of proper weight training and diet and excersise under my belt...

I work at 24 Hour fitness so I have taken in as much wisdom as i can about everything that deals with the MALE and the quality of life aka weights sex drive education etc...

Ill get straight to the point here... After going through maybe 3 endos and being diagnosed with a so called prolactima which was supposely suppresing everything else I decided to come off the cabergoline and try to find another doctor because I was feeling quite miserable and pretty crappy lol although the cialis i recieved from a urologist was indeed nice lol...

prolactin was 37 (2.0-18.0) and T was 400 (300-1500) at the time and Cortisol was like 60( 4.0-50) TSH was high 4.8 and estradiol was 42 (20-56) T4 and T3 was normal i believe... I was perscribed .5 cabergoline a week and months later the lab work showed that the prolactin went down to 0...

Well I got lazy and irresonsible with school and what not stop taking the cabergoline on time and eventually the doc refuesued to fill the script and i never went back in to check T levels... I wouldnt say i felt great at the time but i did feel a difference at least psychologically...

7 Months later i decided to try again and find a credible endo well i did, i explained my past case to hime and i took blood test to see where i was now... Suprisingly PROLACTIN was only 11 and T was 340 same scales... WEll he didnt want to start any hrt and being that it droped from 460 he wanted to measure the RATE of the proclatin " TUMOR" and told me to do blood work for TEST AND PROLATICN in 2 and half months and schedule our appointment in 3...

oh and he said if i felt like crap and i couldnt wait for our next appointment in 3 months that i could come in a month earlier... Well i called a month later and left his nurse a voice mail that expressed my frusterations. HE replyed with " your mood is a reflection of whats going in your life jayden" I laughed as i realized that my life is pretty nice and i am very content with my job gf and family so i came to believe he wasnt wanting to help much...

Well I waited and i did what he said came back 2 months later...
T was 240!!!
So he told me we had to do TRT didnt explain much said estrogen and cortisol was fine when all we checked for was prolactin and test lol so he lied. gave me 5g of androgel for 3 months then said come back in 90 days oh and he said nothing about an AI or serumso or to call back if i have concerns...

at this point i really wanted to give up but in some weird way i was really excited to get this script.... To speed things up I researched here and you guys have given me a breath of relaxtion and tons of stress relief with all this info and experiences thanks...

So a week later my gf and i did some thinking and i went back to my old original endo to get a 2nd opinion he never really did anything unprofessional but try to find every problem possibly that was causing low T before issuing hrt even did an MRI...

he even sugggested sleep apnea test before the HRT well i took the ANDROGEL 5g script to him showed him all my recent blood work and talked to him discussing the best methods and he told me to stick with one endo just so there isnt diff opinions...

He told me that he has a few ppl on HRT and they start out with gels and that its pretty much the partients preference of what route to take... SO HERE WE ARE finally I unloaded all the ?S to him... About why the other doc did issue an AI? is it normal to do an AI with 5g of trasdermal? Will taking 2.5/5/7.5/10g show more success??

I told him that i wanted to stick with the gel and based off user experience and info that i watned to use a tube and half which would be 2.5g more then the original script that the old doc who issued it which is now 7.5 g total...

He said that was legit because the injections are usually given 100mg a week and 10g is the highest you can apply with androgel a day so that would put you in the upper middle of things doing 7.5 G a day... He told me that it wasnt necessary to take an AI with this or usually its not given until it arises lol so much for preventing things lol SO the question is

IF I TAKE ARIMIDEX and dont tell the doctor yet? .25 every 3 days and my estrodiol is 42 and im taking 7.5g of androgel daily my test levels will be pretty high i assume? but if and when i get off the arimidex because im assuming its very pricey and theres side effects with using it long term? or do i go on and off it to?

also will taking arimidex cause him to lower my 7.5g because he thinks its just the androgel working and doesnt know about the ana ( HONESTLY WORKS BEST SOMETIMES I GUESS lol? THE FACT IS i can obtain it from a friend but is it worth taking and hiding from the doc? and if worse case comes and T levels do rise nicely and he degrades me to 5g daily do i count on the arimidex to keep the 5g legit??

if get off arimidex will the E level rise again and rebound back even worse??? BTW I only have 5g packs i am planning on using a pack and a half and sealing the rest for teh next day????? will the air or heat with the tube thing closed and sealed kill the half thing of androgel left daily????

GUYS I AM SORRY THIS IS SO CONFUSING AND LONG ITS 1 am and I have androgel siting here on my desk and i want to start tomorrow morning so bad my quality of life is right here but i just am so frusterated with all these diff suggestions and opinions...

My gut instinct tells me to take low Arimidex with the androgel pack and half unless the air kills it or something then i would have to do just 5g/ and in a month and half go back to my original doctor the one who said it was ok to just keep the equip i have schedule with him soon and to go ahead and try 7.5g and tell him i couldnt help but to take the precaution and do low dose of arimidex???

I can even say how much your opions mean to me... I hope this road to recovery starts soon... Thanks Jayden
btw i will be checking this daily and any feedback is much appreciated


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Thanks for the info boss! yeah it is frusterating i have had many blood test done and i do still have them at hand... They thought the high levels of prolactin was causing the low T but the ironic thing is that when my PROLACTIN was 39.9 (2-18) my Total T was 530 and now that my Prolactin is 13.2 my Total T last month was 240 lol so i dont believe its a micro tumor... As fas as estradiol if i were to lower that to say from 42 to say 15 or 20 that would raise my T levels right but by how much max do you think? and is there a rebound efffect from arimidex? I think maybe it is my balls not pituitary... i will post the labs asap!


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I too call upon a Mr. Ho Lee Shit. I read androgel, taking an AI without the doctor knowing etc, etc, and then my mind wondered(I wonder if its pastor taco special today, damn I need to pump gas in the rig, AGAIN!)

OP, this is doctor prescribed HRT. Speak to him if you have any concerns and do not try to go over him. It usually pisses them off when they are trying to get you back to "normal" and you start fudging with their treatment. Consider yourself lucky you even got a script and doctor willing to work with you.


well in 5/20/2006 my E levels were as read:
Estradiol: 42 (<20-56)
Prolactin: ??? didnt get tested for it

Estradiol:41 on same scale
Test:530 ( 300-1500)
Prolactin: 39!!! (2.0-18.0)

Estradiol 33 on same scale( went down!?) maybe because cortisol went down half??
Test: 390
Prolactin: 10 same scale

did not meaure E? but i assume its stable
Cortisol pm: Normal
Prolactin: 13.4 a bit raised but good
Test Total: 247!!!????
Based off this I cannot believe that my T was higher at one point with HIGH PROLACTIN levels while my T NOW IS LOW with NORMAL PROLACTIN LEVELS? weird huh? and i havnt touched cabergoline for 11 months... I have done some ZMA and TRIBULUS But tha shouldnt cause such a drop???


Yeah I feel you on that... But its not so much messing with there treatment...

I just keep in high regards we pay them and they work for us if there protocol isnt making me feel better or missing some necessary components then maybe i should find another doctor or at speak my opinion based off the correct wisdom that i take from here....

I appreciate the advice bro thankyou I will talk with him before doing the AI i guess....


" Blame it on the E and the low T" blame it on the E EE EEEEEE EEE lol I WAS VENTING ON THE LONG POST LOL hahaha


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sleep apnea test? ask your GF if you snore or snort.

PM me with your location and I will try to find some resources for you.

Most of the TRT traffic is with the old guys in the "over 35 lifter" forum. Typically more help there too.


You're in good hands with KSman...


I will make myself instantly more unpopular.

You have an untreated prolactinoma. As a consequence, your hormone levels are becoming whacky. We do not know if you have an enlarging tumor; this is a plausible explanation for your findings and labs.

You are not like the other men who post here and get casual internet advice. It is irresponsible to suggest "treatments"--AIs, T, whatever--except under the responsible care of your MD. No exceptions.

See your doctor. Get evaluated and get real treatment.


If youre talking about the other guys I agree, but BBB does have a medical background (AFAIK) and the first post stated "get a new doctor" not screw your doctor and listen to me.


well i would like to believe that true but why is it then that my T levels were initially higher with HIGHEST level of prolatcin that i ever had vs the low normal prolactin with the LOW T... So i guess lowering prolactin doesnt RAISE MY T?
Thanks for all the info it means alot


Maybe thats a solution before using the Androgel... GUYS I HAVE YET TO OPEN A PACK anybodys same experience with the Ana and Caber go just PlAin simple arimidex could maybe fix hypogondalism?

I have to jet to work guys i cant wait to get off and get back to here...BTW I made an appt with my endo tomorrow morning! He is my original endo i will brin all the blood work and what not from the previous year...This is the same endo that prescribed me .5 cabergoline weekly but we never tested for test months later because of an car accident...

I ended up stoping the cabergoline cold turkey and never went back to him... there was a cancelation so it opened up to me and i want to get the best treatment and correct one i would like to push for what is right for my body chem!
I LIVE IN Orange county Ca btw thanks so much guys



Just to put this out there my T levels were NORMAL when I had HIGH prolactin when i was seeing my original Endo.... Then Prolactin lowered and T levels also lowered? weird


Car accidents... blows to the head or a bad case of whiplash can damage the pituitary gland leading to hypogonadism. This also can show up on a MRI.

Younger men with low T should be checked for a tumor or growth that affects the pituitary gland. With older guys who have low T, it is assumed that the loss is typical age related issue.

Vision problems can be from a growth in the area of the pituitary that presses on the optic nerves.


Contact OC Pharmacy
31654 Rancho Viejo Road
Suite N
San Juan Capistrano, CA 92675


Phone: (949) 429-5326

They offer free phone consults. Tell them what you are looking for and that you are seeking a doctor who does T+AI+hCG. Do tell them that you are looking for a doctor who take health insurance. Also tell them if you also want the option to inject T.

I checked out other compounding pharmacies in OC and this seems most likely to be helpful.


So i had my appointment... As i walked in there he was in wonderment why i had returned...

Well guys I GREW some balls spoke my 9 month misery with brain fog and low sex drive... gave him examples of what was going on FLASHED him my chest cuz its already puffy still from delayed puberty and he suggested that E2 scales are broader and that everyone reacts diff from diff leveles of E2...

KSman i even presented him that i read some people experience high estrogen problems even though they are in normal low ranges or normal ranges and that me being high normal i would rather go this avenue and not play trial and error... He said that lowering E2 could not raise T levels where I want them to be at...

Then we talked bla bla bla and i told him that i see that prolactin lowered and test lowered and at pretreatment i had higher prolactin and higher test and that obviously my TEST issue isnt because PROLACTIN... AND YES I ALREADY HAD AN MRI DONE A YEAR AGO WHEN PROLACTIN WAS AT 39...


SO THE THING IS I KNOW ARIMIDEX ISNT AS STRONG AS LETROZOLE or TOREMIFENE but DO I TAKE 1G weekly .5 EOD with the AI or just rule out that i could just be high senstitive to E2 amd do .5-1G of it daily by itself before i resort to TRT?????????


I have nothing to add, as it seems like you are in wonderful hands with BBB and Ksman. these 2 are smarter than any doc I have ever came across.
just wanted to say welcome.

and I would go a low dose of the arimidex.
try .25-.5mg (about half a pill) every day.
see how you feel.

shouldn't really be a need for a gram a day but everyone is different.


'sup Maddman!