T Nation

First Time Cycle


#1

I am new to the site and I was wondering if yall can assist me with putting together my first complete cycle. I say complete because I did a cycle of winny several years ago, seen great results, but I did not do it right. Like taking protein, coming off of it correct and I did not have any post cycle support. I would like to use it for cutting and slight mass gains.

Since then I have moved to another state and my â??teamâ?? from college has all lost contact. So therefore I donâ??t know anyone who can tell me where to go to order nor can/do I trust anyone to ask as I am in the military and donâ??t want any flags thrown for obvious reasons.

I am 25 165# 10% BF. I have been training for about 5-6 years now and my work ethic in the gym is great. I would like to lose some this fat so I can run faster at a great distance lets say a minimum of two miles in 14-15 min and a max five miles at 40-45mins. I believe once I lose some this extra body weight it will be easier. I am currently lifting and doing sprints, but my W/O routine is for another post. I am trying to get some assistance for a cycle.

I would like to take anavar or some winny; but I am not sure yet. The other issue I have is I was actually considering us PH, but as I have been reading on here some of you donâ??t agree with PH. One person even said why spend that money on PH when you buy the real stuff. That got me to thinking; they had a point. Which brings me to my second point; I donâ??t know which PH to take, cycle/stack with or w/o and I donâ??t what I should take after the cycle is complete. I want to do this correct this is why I am posting to get some real feedback.

In summary I need some assistance in determining which supplements to take for goals (weight loss, cutting, hardening, slight mass/strength). I am open to PH or real gear. I will be leaving in the next few weeks for overseas, money really isnâ??t an issue (not overly expensive for everything I need) but if its real then I am game and I would like to get my supplements VERY soon.

Again, I want to do this right this is why I am posting. Any suggestions and or recommendations will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.


#2

Tell me the training routine that is specific to improving your speed over distance.


#3

[quote]leagg20 wrote:
I am new to the site and I was wondering if yall can assist me with putting together my first complete cycle. I say complete because I did a cycle of winny several years ago, seen great results, but I did not do it right. Like taking protein, coming off of it correct and I did not have any post cycle support. I would like to use it for cutting and slight mass gains.

Since then I have moved to another state and my â??teamâ?? from college has all lost contact. So therefore I donâ??t know anyone who can tell me where to go to order nor can/do I trust anyone to ask as I am in the military and donâ??t want any flags thrown for obvious reasons.

I am 25 165# 10% BF. I have been training for about 5-6 years now and my work ethic in the gym is great. I would like to lose some this fat so I can run faster at a great distance lets say a minimum of two miles in 14-15 min and a max five miles at 40-45mins. I believe once I lose some this extra body weight it will be easier. I am currently lifting and doing sprints, but my W/O routine is for another post. I am trying to get some assistance for a cycle.

I would like to take anavar or some winny; but I am not sure yet. The other issue I have is I was actually considering us PH, but as I have been reading on here some of you donâ??t agree with PH. One person even said why spend that money on PH when you buy the real stuff. That got me to thinking; they had a point. Which brings me to my second point; I donâ??t know which PH to take, cycle/stack with or w/o and I donâ??t what I should take after the cycle is complete. I want to do this correct this is why I am posting to get some real feedback.

In summary I need some assistance in determining which supplements to take for goals (weight loss, cutting, hardening, slight mass/strength). I am open to PH or real gear. I will be leaving in the next few weeks for overseas, money really isnâ??t an issue (not overly expensive for everything I need) but if its real then I am game and I would like to get my supplements VERY soon.

Again, I want to do this right this is why I am posting. Any suggestions and or recommendations will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Not to sound like an asshole, but have you even noticed that there are sticky posts that you can read which address most of your questions? The search function can be used to answer any other questions you might have. Read, filter the information, come up with a draft cycle and if in any doubt only then post. This is not a place for lazy asses man.

BC


#4

[quote]leagg20 wrote:
I am new to the site and I was wondering if yall can assist me with putting together my first complete cycle. I say complete because I did a cycle of winny several years ago, seen great results, but I did not do it right. Like taking protein, coming off of it correct and I did not have any post cycle support. I would like to use it for cutting and slight mass gains.

Since then I have moved to another state and my â??teamâ?? from college has all lost contact. So therefore I donâ??t know anyone who can tell me where to go to order nor can/do I trust anyone to ask as I am in the military and donâ??t want any flags thrown for obvious reasons.

I am 25 165# 10% BF. I have been training for about 5-6 years now and my work ethic in the gym is great. I would like to lose some this fat so I can run faster at a great distance lets say a minimum of two miles in 14-15 min and a max five miles at 40-45mins. I believe once I lose some this extra body weight it will be easier. I am currently lifting and doing sprints, but my W/O routine is for another post. I am trying to get some assistance for a cycle.

I would like to take anavar or some winny; but I am not sure yet. The other issue I have is I was actually considering us PH, but as I have been reading on here some of you donâ??t agree with PH. One person even said why spend that money on PH when you buy the real stuff. That got me to thinking; they had a point. Which brings me to my second point; I donâ??t know which PH to take, cycle/stack with or w/o and I donâ??t what I should take after the cycle is complete. I want to do this correct this is why I am posting to get some real feedback.

In summary I need some assistance in determining which supplements to take for goals (weight loss, cutting, hardening, slight mass/strength). I am open to PH or real gear. I will be leaving in the next few weeks for overseas, money really isnâ??t an issue (not overly expensive for everything I need) but if its real then I am game and I would like to get my supplements VERY soon.

Again, I want to do this right this is why I am posting. Any suggestions and or recommendations will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

Couple of things here. What is your height? You say your 165 but you want to lose weight? If you’re in the military and you can’t run 14-15min. 2 mile then how are you passing your PT tests? AAS use is not needed to run 2 miles that fast. I run 2 miles in under 11:30 and did so before ever pinning. Also, you’re going overseas? So why would you want to pick up gear now? Agreed chances are that you’re not going to get searched and I know guys who took gear with them overseas, but still. It seems kinda stupid to me. Get gear when you’re over there (and don’t bring it home or you will most likely get caught).

Really, I think you need to read the stickies, get your nutrition dialed in, and if you want to run 2 miles in 14 min. then start running 2 miles. I don’t think AAS is for you at this time.


#5

[quote]leagg20 wrote:
I am new to the site and I was wondering if yall can assist me with putting together my first complete cycle. I say complete because I did a cycle of winny several years ago, seen great results, but I did not do it right. Like taking protein, coming off of it correct and I did not have any post cycle support. I would like to use it for cutting and slight mass gains.[/quote]

What is like Protein? You dont PCT or ‘come off’ protein! lol[quote]

Since then I have moved to another state and my �¢??team�¢?? from college has all lost contact. So therefore I don�¢??t know anyone who can tell me where to go to order nor can/do I trust anyone to ask as I am in the military and don�¢??t want any flags thrown for obvious reasons.

I am 25 165# 10% BF. I have been training for about 5-6 years now and my work ethic in the gym is great. I would like to lose some this fat so I can run faster at a great distance lets say a minimum of two miles in 14-15 min and a max five miles at 40-45mins. I believe once I lose some this extra body weight it will be easier. I am currently lifting and doing sprints, but my W/O routine is for another post. I am trying to get some assistance for a cycle. [/quote]

I really hope you are under 5’7". Training to achieve that for someone of your weight, BF and profession, it should NOT be issue. 2 miles in that time is really achievable for anyone of reasonable fitness.
And you want to lose bodyweight? WHAT bodyweight? You are 160lbs dripping wet boy, with 10% bodyfat…! I wonder if you are 10% or if you THINK that’s what you are? It is common for people to estimate it with no experience of doing this and get it unbelievably wrong. Not unlike estimating caloric intake.[quote]

I would like to take anavar or some winny; but I am not sure yet. The other issue I have is I was actually considering us PH, but as I have been reading on here some of you don�¢??t agree with PH. One person even said why spend that money on PH when you buy the real stuff. That got me to thinking; they had a point. Which brings me to my second point; I don�¢??t know which PH to take, cycle/stack with or w/o and I don�¢??t what I should take after the cycle is complete. I want to do this correct this is why I am posting to get some real feedback.[/quote]

Why Var or Winstrol? i assume because they are ‘cutting’ drugs? They are only cutting drugs due to the fact they wont hold extra water on your body, and as such when you diet down to a very low bodyfat level (as bodybuilders do…) then this fact coupled with the androgen activity, a hard, dry and defined look CAN be achieved if you have done the correct work to achieve this.
This is not the kind of condition i would suggest being in when serving - unless it is how you are naturally (many guys BF is stable at ~6%). you wont be able to keep up the diet and you will also be weak and tired (<6%).
10% is plenty low enough for any man who is not in competition for physique judging conpetition IMO and with some muscle looks good with very little ‘dead’ weight to carry.
Var and Winny will put very little muscle on you - not to mention not being anabolic enough alone to support a cutting diet IF you were intending on doing so.
Are you adverse to injecting or is it impossible in your situation?[quote]

In summary I need some assistance in determining which supplements to take for goals (weight loss, cutting, hardening, slight mass/strength). I am open to PH or real gear. I will be leaving in the next few weeks for overseas, money really isn�¢??t an issue (not overly expensive for everything I need) but if its real then I am game and I would like to get my supplements VERY soon.[/quote]

Supplements or drugs? I wont even mention the use of PH’s, but when you refer to supplements are you including protein powders and ZMA etc… or just PH’s?
As for AAS to use… it depends on what you confirm you want? If it is simply running 2-5 miles faster, then virtually any anabolic in low-moderate dosages will assist this IF you are currently training for that. If not then maybe you should before adding drugs to the mix.

If you are really set on losing fat, then i would seriously suggest you simply inject a few hundred milligrams of testosterone a week while you diet down - you wont lose fat or gain muscle without the diet to support that.[quote]

Again, I want to do this right this is why I am posting. Any suggestions and or recommendations will be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
[/quote]

It sounds to me as though your goals are particularly low and easily attained - meaning that the use of AAS to achieve them is simply not warranted. They are not without side effects and legal risks… and PH are worse IMO (side effects wise) and you can easily drop 5lbs or increase cardio ability in a month with no assistance.

If you say something that seems worthy of shutting down your own natural testosterone production for (yes, PH do this too and will still need illegally bought prescription only drugs to counter side effects and PCT) then i may have something to offer… until then i would say go for a run.

Brook


#6

Not to sound like an asshole, but have you even noticed that there are sticky posts that you can read which address most of your questions? The search function can be used to answer any other questions you might have. Read, filter the information, come up with a draft cycle and if in any doubt only then post. This is not a place for lazy asses man.

BC

  1. Sure reads like you were trying to be an asshole…but thanks

Couple of things here. What is your height? You say your 165 but you want to lose weight? If you’re in the military and you can’t run 14-15min. 2 mile then how are you passing your PT tests? AAS use is not needed to run 2 miles that fast. I run 2 miles in under 11:30 and did so before ever pinning. Also, you’re going overseas? So why would you want to pick up gear now? Agreed chances are that you’re not going to get searched and I know guys who took gear with them overseas, but still. It seems kinda stupid to me. Get gear when you’re over there (and don’t bring it home or you will most likely get caught).

Really, I think you need to read the stickies, get your nutrition dialed in, and if you want to run 2 miles in 14 min. then start running 2 miles. I don’t think AAS is for you at this time.

  1. My height is 5-6. When I say weight I meant BF; I should have specified. I am passing my PT test because I am allotted more then 15 mins; actually its like 1636 or so. Yes I am going overseas and I do know guys are taking there juice with them its easier that way. You do not want to go out there, order and have a package delevered to you. If you dont know the military let me tell you; if your chain of command wants to be an ass they can test you for that is it expensive yes but they can and will. Even if they dont test you they can think something and others can speculate and then its down hill from there. Given my position and title I dont want any of this. Lastly, my issue of deciding where to order from still has not been resolved. I think I can kinda handle fomulating a cycle plan, but bottom line I need the real stuff PH or real gear. Thanks.

#7

What is like Protein? You dont PCT or ‘come off’ protein! lol
-I was trying to say I did the cycle incoreect by taking protein, coming off the cycle correct I kept my dosage the same the entire cycle even at the end. And I know you cannot come off of protein. LOL.

I really hope you are under 5’7". Training to achieve that for someone of your weight, BF and profession, it should NOT be issue. 2 miles in that time is really achievable for anyone of reasonable fitness.
And you want to lose bodyweight? WHAT bodyweight? You are 160lbs dripping wet boy, with 10% bodyfat…! I wonder if you are 10% or if you THINK that’s what you are? It is common for people to estimate it with no experience of doing this and get it unbelievably wrong. Not unlike estimating caloric intake.

  • I am 5-6 5-7. Ok you got me with the BF% I did it this morning with a skin fold and I am 12%.

Why Var or Winstrol? i assume because they are ‘cutting’ drugs? They are only cutting drugs due to the fact they wont hold extra water on your body, and as such when you diet down to a very low bodyfat level (as bodybuilders do…) then this fact coupled with the androgen activity, a hard, dry and defined look CAN be achieved if you have done the correct work to achieve this.
This is not the kind of condition i would suggest being in when serving - unless it is how you are naturally (many guys BF is stable at ~6%). you wont be able to keep up the diet and you will also be weak and tired (<6%). 10% is plenty low enough for any man who is not in competition for physique judging conpetition IMO and with some muscle looks good with very little ‘dead’ weight to carry.
Var and Winny will put very little muscle on you - not to mention not being anabolic enough alone to support a cutting diet IF you were intending on doing so.Are you adverse to injecting or is it impossible in your situation?

  • Yes I am fairly lean naturally. I have TOO much fat around the obvious places; bottom of stomach, middle of back, bottom of back and some on legs. I believe my diet is pretty clean( protiend drinks, fish chicken beef sometimes, salads, fruits etc. I was actually following John Beradis article he posted several years ago about dieting. No I am not adverse to injecting; dont think it is impossible. I would prefer pills just over all easier that way, BUT hey…

Supplements or drugs? I wont even mention the use of PH’s, but when you refer to supplements are you including protein powders and ZMA etc… or just PH’s?

-I was talking about PH, but I know how you feel about PHs. You said you were not going to talk about them anymore. LOL

As for AAS to use… it depends on what you confirm you want? If it is simply running 2-5 miles faster, then virtually any anabolic in low-moderate dosages will assist this IF you are currently training for that. If not then maybe you should before adding drugs to the mix. If you are really set on losing fat, then i would seriously suggest you simply inject a few hundred milligrams of testosterone a week while you diet down - you wont lose fat or gain muscle without the diet to support that.It sounds to me as though your goals are particularly low and easily attained - meaning that the use of AAS to achieve them is simply not warranted. They are not without side effects and legal risks… and PH are worse IMO (side effects wise) and you can easily drop 5lbs or increase cardio ability in a month with no assistance.If you say something that seems worthy of shutting down your own natural testosterone production for (yes, PH do this too and will still need illegally bought prescription only drugs to counter side effects and PCT) then i may have something to offer… until then i would say go for a run.
Brook

Ok here is a little more “meat” to my story. I do have more goals. At my height I think 170-175 at about 7-9% would look really good on me. My issue with that is everytime I approach that weight my run time suffers and also comes with alot of pain in my lower back while running. I want to be a decent size. What is a decent size…5-6/5-7…165-175lbs…7-9%BF and clean shaved head and face…no offense to those who dont or cant wear a clean shaven head…thanks


#8

[quote]leagg20 wrote:
Not to sound like an asshole, but have you even noticed that there are sticky posts that you can read which address most of your questions? The search function can be used to answer any other questions you might have. Read, filter the information, come up with a draft cycle and if in any doubt only then post. This is not a place for lazy asses man.

BC

  1. Sure reads like you were trying to be an asshole…but thanks

Couple of things here. What is your height? You say your 165 but you want to lose weight? If you’re in the military and you can’t run 14-15min. 2 mile then how are you passing your PT tests? AAS use is not needed to run 2 miles that fast. I run 2 miles in under 11:30 and did so before ever pinning. Also, you’re going overseas? So why would you want to pick up gear now? Agreed chances are that you’re not going to get searched and I know guys who took gear with them overseas, but still. It seems kinda stupid to me. Get gear when you’re over there (and don’t bring it home or you will most likely get caught).

Really, I think you need to read the stickies, get your nutrition dialed in, and if you want to run 2 miles in 14 min. then start running 2 miles. I don’t think AAS is for you at this time.

  1. My height is 5-6. When I say weight I meant BF; I should have specified. I am passing my PT test because I am allotted more then 15 mins; actually its like 1636 or so. Yes I am going overseas and I do know guys are taking there juice with them its easier that way. You do not want to go out there, order and have a package delevered to you. If you dont know the military let me tell you; if your chain of command wants to be an ass they can test you for that is it expensive yes but they can and will. Even if they dont test you they can think something and others can speculate and then its down hill from there. Given my position and title I dont want any of this. Lastly, my issue of deciding where to order from still has not been resolved. I think I can kinda handle fomulating a cycle plan, but bottom line I need the real stuff PH or real gear. Thanks.[/quote]

Hey man. Use the “quote” function. Makes things so much easier. And as far as Winny and Anavar they are used as you said for applications such as you are considering. Try to get a hold of some info on how the track teams of the world use these PED’s Cheers :slight_smile:


#9

[quote]leagg20 wrote:
I was trying to say I did the cycle incoreect by taking protein, coming off the cycle correct I kept my dosage the same the entire cycle even at the end. And I know you cannot come off of protein. LOL.[/quote]

Still making little sense. You did the cycle incorrectly by taking protein? What can you possibly mean? A high protein intake when on cycle is absolutely paramount.
Also it is very normal and often recommended to keep doses of the drug stable throughout the cycle - not tapering off towards the end - especially when talking about something like Stanazolol.

I get the feeling you are assuming some incorrect things when you are talking about coming off incorrectly. Either way it is academic now[quote]

Ok here is a little more “meat” to my story. I do have more goals. At my height I think 170-175 at about 7-9% would look really good on me. My issue with that is everytime I approach that weight my run time suffers and also comes with alot of pain in my lower back while running. I want to be a decent size. What is a decent size…5-6/5-7…165-175lbs…7-9%BF and clean shaved head and face…no offense to those who dont or cant wear a clean shaven head…thanks[/quote]

What has your haircut got to do with anything? Are you serious??

Assuming you are for real after that surreal inclusion… your current stats and goals look approximately like this:

Current:
150 lbs LBM
20 lbs FM

Goal:
163 lbs LBM
12 lbs FM

So this requires losing ~8lbs of fat and gaining ~13lbs of lean muscle.

These goals are pretty much outside the realm of reality for one oral steroid cycle.

You can easily lose fat with nothing used… And at the same time increase the speed at which you want to run the distances you mentioned.
Reducing carbs slowly as you increase training for those distances can massively assist in achieving both those goals BUT there are issues.

You need to decide what you want most or first, as the goals are too different.

  1. IF the time over the distances is your number one priority - Depending on how far you are of your time in that distance, you may need to make sure calories and carbs are plentiful to support the training you need to do to reach that goal. (If you are 30secs/1min off that goal then it is likely achievable with pure practice and a little naturally occurring fat loss).

  2. If the fat loss is your priority i would suggest you keep running to train for that goal, whilst controlling calories from carbs and allow the diet to dictate how hard you train. The weight will come off but possibly at the sacrifice of your times… (again dependant on your current fitness level)

  3. If the muscle is your priority you will never build 13lbs of lean meat while eating to drop fat and also training to improve speed over medium distances. You can eat low/moderate carb, moderate fat and high protein to make sure you gain as little fat as possible or maybe drop a pound or two while building muscle while you do a pure and real bulking cycle (orals only maybe dbol and primo/var or drol and winstrol and primo).

The less you eat in order to achieve the fat loss… the more you compromise gains.

I also wonder - what is the reason you slow up at 170-175lbs? Does your fat increase massively? Or is it the simple fact that you weigh more?
If the latter and the time is very important for your job (as i asusme it is) then maybe you should consider that while in the forces you need to stay light to be competitive in the fitness aspect - and when you leave you can ‘bulk-up’.

OR is it enough to be able to complete the times at the bare minimum but be built well? I don’t remember but if you are in training you could just do a bulk cycle after that period, when you have the freedom to let times drop a little, as long as the endurance is there it would be a non-issue i would imagine.

*There is the possibility of someone like you gaining approx. ~10lbs of tissue while losing a good ~5lbs of fat in one cycle, but it isn’t really possible due to your restrictions.
In order to achieve something like that it would at least require injecting, have a risk of a moderate decrease in aerobic ability, plenty of money and a bit more freedom to train… (am/pm)

As it is, it sounds to me as though you either need to achieve each goal separately OR shoot for all of them but over a number of cycles… either way it isn’t do-able within 1 oral only cycle IMO.

In conclusion you need to prioritise i think, then give your all to that one goal and move to the next after that.

JMO

Brook


#10

“Still making little sense. You did the cycle incorrectly by taking protein? What can you possibly mean?”

-First let me say thank you for the feedback. I like this, and mostly everyone here (Brooks), really pays attention to detail. Ok here we go…I meant that I now know I was not taking enough protein on my last cycle.

“What has your haircut got to do with anything? Are you serious??”

-I know I look good when I am at my ideal weight and my shaved head added to that…LOL…ok enough about that…I digress

Assuming you are for real after that surreal inclusion… your current stats and goals look approximately like this:
Current:
150 lbs LBM
20 lbs FM
Goal:
163 lbs LBM
12 lbs FM
So this requires losing ~8lbs of fat and gaining ~13lbs of lean muscle.

-CORRECT!

You need to decide what you want most or first, as the goals are too different.�¢??
-If I had to prioritize

  1. Gain LEAN muscle
  2. Loss of BF; and I assume that while I gaining LEAN muscle my BF
    should drop. While it may not drop considerably it will drop. And by also gaining lean muscle and tone I should not appear bulky or thick but leaner, more tone and muscular.
  3. My run times. I know with the two above complete my run will drop.

I also wonder - what is the reason you slow up at 170-175lbs??

-To be honest with you I don�¢??t have a reason to stop at 175. I guess at a minimum 175 will look the most natural on me.

Is it enough to be able to complete the times at the bare minimum but be built well??

-Especially over the next year, YES, that is correct it is enough to pass my run with the minimum and still be well packaged.I will still score like 260-280 out of 300.

These goals are pretty much outside the realm of reality for one oral steroid cycle; (orals only maybe dbol and primo/var or drol and winstrol and primo).�¢??

-One oral steroid cycle so what about more than one, and which one would you recommend.

There is the possibility of someone like you gaining approx. ~10lbs of tissue while losing a good ~5lbs of fat in one cycle, but it isn’t really possible due to your restrictions. In order to achieve something like that it would at least require injecting, have a risk of a moderate decrease in aerobic ability, plenty of money and a bit more freedom to train. (am/pm)

-What are the restrictions that you are referring to. One good thing about being overseas is that most mess halls serve four meals a day; and all the gyms are open 24/7. With that said getting to the gym and maintaining a proper diet shouldnÃ?¢??t be an issue. The only way I should not be able to maintain this is because of missions. But since we had to pull out of all major cities missions will probably be limited. Thanks for the feedback…

I will use the quote function next time; my bad.


#11

OK… that clears most of it up. Thanks for humouring me :wink:

Firstly - your bodyfat will not necessarily drop when you gain lean tissue… but the percentage, or ratio of BF to muscle (LBM) will drop. So say you are at 10% and weigh 200lbs. If you gain 10lbs of muscle only, then your bodyfat % would be ~9% even if you lost none.

As you can see this is cool, but not enough for massive changes.

Secondly when i asked why you slow up at 1875lbs, i didn’t mean why do you only aspire to be 175lbs, i meant why does your speed drop at that weight. Now you have prioritised the goals, it isn’t important.

If you want muscle, Var and/or Winstrol will do very little. Winstrol for me does very little to nothing at all… likely a performance improvement with little to no muscle. Var is similar but i have not yet used it alone and have little experience with it (Not used Winny alone either BUT i have much more experience with that particularly useless drug and would only use it again when i compete).
If you are sticking with oral only, i would suggest the minimum you should do would be to stack a CI and a CII. So something like Dbol and Primo or var, drol+winny and primo, something like that. This would be much better than any of them alone of course.

EDIT: If Tbol is a Class i then Dbol and Tbol may be good - but use taurine with that.

I would NOT recommend an oral only cycle but they would be among my choices. I would suggest something like test at ~350-500mg/wk (i’ll get blasted for that dose by BR - Watch… ;p) maybe some masteron or tren preferably but this will reduce your aerobic ability i’m sure.

The option where you may get very close to all goals - or at least the visual ones would be something along the lines of:

Test ~750mg/wk
Tren ~350mg/wk
Dbol ~210mg/wk
HGH BBB 21day protocol, IM.

Maybe some clen… or something like that for you.

And training with early semi-fasted AM cardio, strict carb control and dieting, and then afternoon/PM weights - 4-6x/wk with the cardio - 3-7x/wk.

But i mentioned it in passing and i know it isn’t an option (nor suggested as one). It was merely to suggest the type of thing you would be looking at for the results you wanted all at once - it shows you how hard or unlikely it is with an oral only cycle i think! (FWIW, the goals are NOT astronomical, but just too far for one cycle IMO).

JMO - i’ll let someone else voice their opinion now… maybe wankraw has something to add as he seems to be following me… dunno.

Best,

Brook


#12

-Now dont make fun of me because this cycle may demonstrate my ignorance, but its ok because the first step is admitting…at any rate…I am going to go with Winny at about 350 a week for 6wks and dbol at 210 mg/wk for 6wks…if I order from this one site it will be about 600…is that reasonable??? What brand of oral test do you suggest to possibly replace the dbol?
winny 100 Tabs/10mg for 200 EDIT 100
dbaol 1000 Tabs/5mg for 400 EDIT the lowest I found was 500 Tabs/10mg for 240

-I figured the dbol will help me gain my mass and the winny will help me cut/lean out. The issue when do I start the winny? Toward the end of the dbol cycle? Again, assistance please.

-I will have to buy several containers of protein and I am sure I some sort of PCT. Which PCT do you recommend? Does the above cycle makes sense? Lastly I have the name of the site if your interested so you can assist to varify; or feel free to PM me to let me know where I should go so I wont get beat for my money. Thanks

And training with early semi-fasted AM cardio, strict carb control and dieting, and then afternoon/PM weights - 4-6x/wk with the cardio - 3-7x/wk.

-This schedule very doable.


#13

Those are outrageous prices. Go back and do some more research. Dbol should be around $140 for that quantity and Winny at least 1/2 of that price. Just because they are charging that much doesn’t mean it is legit anyway.


#14

For some reason I think it would be easier for someone to simply PM/post what site they recommend. If that does not happen I guess Ill have to pay an arm and a leg and hope the stuff is real.


#15

[quote]leagg20 wrote:
2. My height is 5-6. When I say weight I meant BF; I should have specified. I am passing my PT test because I am allotted more then 15 mins; actually its like 1636 or so. Yes I am going overseas and I do know guys are taking there juice with them its easier that way. You do not want to go out there, order and have a package delevered to you. If you dont know the military let me tell you; if your chain of command wants to be an ass they can test you for that is it expensive yes but they can and will. Even if they dont test you they can think something and others can speculate and then its down hill from there. Given my position and title I dont want any of this. Lastly, my issue of deciding where to order from still has not been resolved. I think I can kinda handle fomulating a cycle plan, but bottom line I need the real stuff PH or real gear. Thanks.[/quote]

I realize how much time you have…still no reason why your time shouln’t be lower. Especially if you have a position and title…I wouldn’t ask any of my soldiers to do what I can’t do which is why I make sure I have a 300 PT score. What I’m saying is that unless you will be stationed in a remote bumblefuck area for your entire tour you will have access to it as a local source…generally pharm grade. You just have to utilize yor assets. That was the point I was trying to make.


#16

[quote]fireflyz wrote:
leagg20 wrote:
2. My height is 5-6. When I say weight I meant BF; I should have specified. I am passing my PT test because I am allotted more then 15 mins; actually its like 1636 or so. Yes I am going overseas and I do know guys are taking there juice with them its easier that way. You do not want to go out there, order and have a package delevered to you.

If you dont know the military let me tell you; if your chain of command wants to be an ass they can test you for that is it expensive yes but they can and will. Even if they dont test you they can think something and others can speculate and then its down hill from there. Given my position and title I dont want any of this. Lastly, my issue of deciding where to order from still has not been resolved. I think I can kinda handle fomulating a cycle plan, but bottom line I need the real stuff PH or real gear. Thanks.

I realize how much time you have…still no reason why your time shouln’t be lower. Especially if you have a position and title…I wouldn’t ask any of my soldiers to do what I can’t do which is why I make sure I have a 300 PT score. What I’m saying is that unless you will be stationed in a remote bumblefuck area for your entire tour you will have access to it as a local source…generally pharm grade. You just have to utilize yor assets. That was the point I was trying to make.[/quote]

Ok got it…still no helpful or useful information that pertains to my original post…thanks


#17

[quote]leagg20 wrote:
-Now dont make fun of me because this cycle may demonstrate my ignorance, but its ok because the first step is admitting…at any rate…I am going to go with Winny at about 350 a week for 6wks and dbol at 210 mg/wk for 6wks…[/quote]

They are both in the same class of steroids and as such wont be amazing to stack. I didnt suggest dbol and winstrol for a reason.[quote]

if I order from this one site it will be about 600…is that reasonable???[/quote]

No, it is possibly the worst price i have ever seen in my life.[quote]

What brand of oral test do you suggest to possibly replace the dbol?[/quote]

I dont. If i did i would replace the winstrol not the dbol anyway.[quote]

winny 100 Tabs/10mg for 200 EDIT 100
dbaol 1000 Tabs/5mg for 400 EDIT the lowest I found was 500 Tabs/10mg for 240

-I figured the dbol will help me gain my mass and the winny will help me cut/lean out. The issue when do I start the winny? Toward the end of the dbol cycle? Again, assistance please.[/quote]

That is NOT how it works. Did you read my post?[quote]

-I will have to buy several containers of protein[/quote]

Why? Dont you use it anyway?[quote]

and I am sure I some sort of PCT. Which PCT do you recommend?[/quote]

Which have you heard of (lol)?[quote]

Does the above cycle makes sense?[/quote]

Makes sense - but it isn’t correct.[quote]

Lastly I have the name of the site if your interested so you can assist to varify; or feel free to PM me to let me know where I should go so I wont get beat for my money.[/quote]

No i am fine thanks… i am not too interested TBH sorry.[quote]

And training with early semi-fasted AM cardio, strict carb control and dieting, and then afternoon/PM weights - 4-6x/wk with the cardio - 3-7x/wk.

-This schedule very doable.
[/quote]

As i made clear it was NOT what i recommended with your oral bulking cycle - that would be a sure way to reduce more of the gains you could make.

Sorry mate, i am out. You clearly have issues reading simple posts and advice, and you are also particularly rude to other regular posters - posters who know a great deal more than you.

See ya.


#18

[quote]leagg20 wrote:
fireflyz wrote:
leagg20 wrote:
2. My height is 5-6. When I say weight I meant BF; I should have specified. I am passing my PT test because I am allotted more then 15 mins; actually its like 1636 or so. Yes I am going overseas and I do know guys are taking there juice with them its easier that way.

You do not want to go out there, order and have a package delevered to you. If you dont know the military let me tell you; if your chain of command wants to be an ass they can test you for that is it expensive yes but they can and will. Even if they dont test you they can think something and others can speculate and then its down hill from there. Given my position and title I dont want any of this. Lastly, my issue of deciding where to order from still has not been resolved. I think I can kinda handle fomulating a cycle plan, but bottom line I need the real stuff PH or real gear. Thanks.

I realize how much time you have…still no reason why your time shouln’t be lower. Especially if you have a position and title…I wouldn’t ask any of my soldiers to do what I can’t do which is why I make sure I have a 300 PT score. What I’m saying is that unless you will be stationed in a remote bumblefuck area for your entire tour you will have access to it as a local source…generally pharm grade. You just have to utilize yor assets. That was the point I was trying to make.

Ok got it…still no helpful or useful information that pertains to my original post…thanks

[/quote]

Not a problem, man :slight_smile: If you say you know other guys who ship gear with them, then why not ask them? Bottom line is that no one is going to post a source on a public board. You might get someone to PM you, but that is up to them.

There are some good threads on the T-Cell Alpha Forum about set points with regards to weight. Most likely what is making you slow when you reach 175 pounds is that your body isn’t used to holding that weight so you’re going to feel sluggish compared to how you felt at a lighter weight.

I don’t know that AAS is going to help with that. Are you a POG or infantry? Cuz if you’re infantry then I don’t think that messing around with your capacity for cardio is such a good thing…especially if shit hits the fan.

IMO, all of our stated goals can be resolved by the standard eight week cycle of 500mg/week of Test-E. Then if you want to gain or lose weight is simply nutrition. (hint: lots of protein involved either way). Good luck.


#19

[quote]fireflyz wrote:

fireflyz wrote:
Not a problem, man :slight_smile: If you say you know other guys who ship gear with them, then why not ask them? Bottom line is that no one is going to post a source on a public board. You might get someone to PM you, but that is up to them.

There are some good threads on the T-Cell Alpha Forum about set points with regards to weight. Most likely what is making you slow when you reach 175 pounds is that your body isn’t used to holding that weight so you’re going to feel sluggish compared to how you felt at a lighter weight.

I don’t know that AAS is going to help with that. Are you a POG or infantry? Cuz if you’re infantry then I don’t think that messing around with your capacity for cardio is such a good thing…especially if shit hits the fan.

-I AGREE!

IMO, all of our stated goals can be resolved by the standard eight week cycle of 500mg/week of Test-E. Then if you want to gain or lose weight is simply nutrition. (hint: lots of protein involved either way). Good luck.[/quote]

-Thanks that was definately helpful. So you are telling me that I can take some test and gain what I need…and I am a tanker/scout.