T Nation

First Time Cycle Proposal

This is a cut and paste from another thread on frontloading, sorry if it’s confusing…it includes a few quotes but they contain some info worth reposting.

The cycle I’m kicking around (haven’t made up my mind yet) looks like this.

Weeks 1-12
Test Enth 1g per week (500mg E3D)

Frontload Day One 1600mg (seems high?)
Followed by 500mg E3D

Weeks 12-16 PCT
I’m still open to suggestions here…a friend keeps suggesting Clomid.

BONEZ217 wrote:
BrokenOverdrive wrote:
so lets try this…

if my cycle plan is going to be Test Enth, 500mg every 3 days for a weekly total of 1000mg (1g), then the math for an appropriate frontload would be as follows:

1000mg x 8 = 8000mg

8000mg / 7 = 1143mg, rounded to 1100mg

1100mg + 500mg = 1600mg for the day one injection, bringing my blood levels up to par right out of the gate. The rest of the injections will be 500mg.

1600mg seems high compared to what I have been reading lately, considering this frontload will be the start of my first cycle (12 weeks of Test Enth only, followed by PCT)

Any input is greatly appriciated.

I see no reason whatsoever to run 1g of test for 12 weeks as a first cycle. Cut the duration down. You can probably lower the dose as well. 500-600mg/wk for 8 weeks with a frontload would be good for a first cycle. You may want to give some stats as well.

I will transfer all of this into a new thread as well but here’s some stuff…

25 year old male, 5’8", 180lbs @ 12%bodyfat
Training for 5 years
Strength coach/personal trainer
Looking to gain mass (breaking 200lbs at 12% would be nice)
Diet is in check and training is on track, but after 5 years I feel I have finally found my genetic limits.
Recent bloodwork shows normal levels on all stats (cholesterol, blood pressure, triglycerides, and test was normal-low)
No pre-existing conditions, kidney problems, liver problems, or metabolic disorders.

Initially I was looking into a two compound stack, such as Deca. I decided to minimize the risk of interaction by going with the Test-only cycle for the first run. The 12 week timeframe is just the most common cycle length I have found and seems appropriate, but my experiance is limited. Also, the 1g a week was a result of the compromise of not using a two compound cycle. I want this first cycle to be as effective as possible and from what I have read, the 1g a week seems like a moderate amount for a beginner.

Thoughts?

  1. 1 gram per week is NOT a moderate amount for a beginner.
  2. Your not taking one gram per week your taking 1 gram every 6 days, which comes out to almost 1.2 grams a weeks
  3. you havent proposed anything about on cycle therapy or PCT…the most important things
  4. Read the stickies

Bill Roberts has been using a 5 day half life for Test E. So the frontload calc would be as follows:

(weekly mgs * 5 / 7) + interval mgs

eg.: weekly mgs = 500
Interval mgs = 250

(500 * 5 / 7) + 250 = 607 mg

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Bill Roberts has been using a 5 day half life for Test E. So the frontload calc would be as follows:

(weekly mgs * 5 / 7) + interval mgs

eg.: weekly mgs = 500
Interval mgs = 250

(500 * 5 / 7) + 250 = 607 mg[/quote]

that seems better…the figures I ran came from another thread where Bill said 7 or 8 days but he may have been talking about test cyp

[quote]getfast24 wrote:

  1. 1 gram per week is NOT a moderate amount for a beginner.

  2. Your not taking one gram per week your taking 1 gram every 6 days, which comes out to almost 1.2 grams a weeks

  3. you havent proposed anything about on cycle therapy or PCT…the most important things

  4. Read the stickies[/quote]

  5. ok

  6. ok

  7. that’s because I haven’t even really proposed a cycle, like I said, I am very open to suggestion and experienced help. I am new at this and I know that.

  8. I did, which is why my post wasn’t a complete piece of shit like half of what I’ve read in here. Thanks for playing.

Yes, that was cyp.

Starting with 500mg/wk is a perfectly acceptable dose for a beginner. If your training and nutrition is up to par the you will be please with the gains. If you desire to gain 20 pounds of muscle you will have to aim higher than 200 pounds. Some of what you gain will be fat and water. This is inevitable.

The longer a cycle is the harder it becomes to recover from it. I have done a few 8 week cycles of Test E WITHOUT a frontload and the gains were quite good.

You will need an AI.

I would not recommed Clomid for PCT. There are better SERMs available. Read the thread at the top of the page on AIs and SERMs

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Starting with 500mg/wk is a perfectly acceptable dose for a beginner. If your training and nutrition is up to par the you will be please with the gains. If you desire to gain 20 pounds of muscle you will have to aim higher than 200 pounds. Some of what you gain will be fat and water. This is inevitable.

The longer a cycle is the harder it becomes to recover from it. I have done a few 8 week cycles of Test E WITHOUT a frontload and the gains were quite good.

You will need an AI.

I would not recommed Clomid for PCT. There are better SERMs available. Read the thread at the top of the page on AIs and SERMs[/quote]

I have a bottle of AIFM from the AF store, I’ll be buying another.

What SERM did you use on your 8 week?

I don’t know what AIFM is.

I use nolvadex for PCT on short-ish cycles. I am considering trying toremefine in the future though.

edited

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I don’t know what AIFM is.

I use nolvadex for PCT on short-ish cycles. I am considering trying torefemine in the future though. [/quote]

www.theafstore.com/product.php?productid=8&cat=0&bestseller=Y

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I don’t know what AIFM is.

I use nolvadex for PCT on short-ish cycles. I am considering trying torefemine in the future though. [/quote]

Bonez,

How does Nolva work for you? Is dissatisfaction your reason for wanting to try torefemine (which I hear may be an improvement)?

It works fine. But I am not afraid to try new things. I haven’t heard anything bad about toremefine but it is a little more expensive so I’m not 100% sure I’ll use it.

edited

ok so I sniped this fron another thread…

Week 1 - 875mg Test E (frontload 625mg + 250mg)
Weeks 2-8 - 500mg Test E (250mg 2x/wk)

Arimidex .25mg EOD/ED as needed

Would the addition of Nolva be neccesary or would the Arimidex be sufficient?

Nolva for PCT starting in week 11.