T Nation

First Test Cycle (Please Review)


#1

Hey guys I’m finally getting ready to begin my first cycle in a week. Just wanted to run it by everyone here and see if you had any input or think everything looks good. Most of my knowledge comes from a guy I know who’s experienced with gear for over 10 years but I still wanted a second opinion. PCT is my own research and I was hoping to get advice on how i should dose the hcG

wk 1-10: 400 mg split twice a wk (200mg test c and 200 mg test e)
wk 1-10: .25mg Armidex every other day
wk 1-10: AI nutrition cycle support

PCT (starting week 12):

Clomid @ 75/50/50/50
Nolvadex @ 40/20/20/20
hCG


#2

Age? Number of years lifting? Body fat percentage? Considering children sometime In the future?

Consider running Hcg on cycle and no need to run both clomid and Nolva for pct, most would just suggest Nolva.


#3

I would just run test e at 500mg per week split over two injections.

HCG during the cycle @ 250iu mon/wed/fri. Stop a day or so before starting PCT.

Do not use HCG during PCT alongside a SERM.

Run Nolva alone for PCT. Something like 20/20/20/20/10 would be fine.

The PCT protocol you have put together is a pretty standard old school protocol but is outdated.


#4

#5

Okay thanks guys. So just Nolva it is on PCT. And depending how my body responds I’ll definitely boost to 500mg/wk. My friend suggested running the hCG with the PCT to get my test levels back to normal. He said running hCG on cycle will be counterproductive since the test will be shutting down natural production and hCG would do the opposite and it could build up an immunity so it won’t be as efficient PC. So assuming I did a 10 wk cycle and started my pct 2 wks after final injection on wk 12, would I want to run the hCG from weeks 6-10 or 8-12?

And to answer your question I’m 24 been lifting 7 years, 5’11 at 185 lbs (not sure of BF but its fairly low) and yes considering kids in the future.


#6

Very strong consensus.

What your friend suggests doesn’t make sense. The point of hCG on cycle is that it mimics LH while you have none and will therefore keep your balls active and keep them from atrophying on cycle. This makes recovery easier and more likely. The whole point of using a SERM for PCT is to get your body producing LH again which is the natural signal to the testicles to produce. Taking hCG counteracts this effect as there is a negative feedback loop. You’re sending the body mixed signals by taking hCG during PCT.


#7

What a total crock of shit/


#8

Just my two cents I don’t and won’t be running HCG. used it twice with no added benefit that i saw so I’m not wasting my money.

Not saying don’t run it but, I don’t nor does anyone that I know personally run it.


#9

I think it is far more important for those on TRT or that blast and cruise, looking to avoid damage to the testes from the long term shutdown in the hopes of being able to have children in the future and possibly come off.

However the cost of it is should be insignificant if you are in a position to be able to afford to use steroids and the benefits of using it whilst on are well known


#10

Where’s @AndyJones1992? Explain to these vets why they have to run HCG.


#11

Truth. I used to do a little but a little wouldn’t do so the little got more and more…

Seriously, this has to be the most creative piece of nonsense I have ever read on this subject. Give your friend a pat on the back and a punch in the face for me!


#12

I saw no benefit, have no want or desire to EVER have a child, and as for being able to afford is not the issue. I can afford a new big ass set of mudder tires for my truck but, I don’t see a reason or have any benefit to use then even though I can afford it.

I’m not saying don’t im saying I don’t and have no want.


#13

if I ever go the B&C route I doubt I’ll use hCG, but I use it on every cycle


#14

I presume you b + c like myself… Everyone to their own n all but I do not see what you would expect to “see” as a result of using hcg unless you got blood work or came off… I plan to blast and cruise for the forseable future but will always run HCG 250iu 3x per week; its cheap and so easy to do I dont know why anyone wouldnt use it if it increased (even slightly) all aspects of recovery/natural test production in the event one would have to come off for any reason (vacation/illness!?)… this is more of a reason I use it over fertility…


#15

Well on TRT any way even if something does happen. Naturally before ever touching anything at 19 my levels low 200. I assume even lower now at 25 if i ever just stopped cold turkey (which unless say a zombie apocalypse ever happened ) won’t happen. As for fertility I want prefer that to be none existent. I just saw no benefit frok HCG when running. Some even claim they use it to help for no other reason than helping be more mentally/think clearer but, I didn’t see that benefit. Just wasted money for my goals, life style and taste I suppose.

Im not debating HCG or that it should or should not be used. I am speaking solely of my past experience with it.


#16

Fair enough, your a year or so older than me and clearly look like you put the work in with all the other aspects and at least you got your reasons. Also I guess being on TRT in the States is more of an almost certainty never to run out of Test as apposed to having to get it from sources here in the UK…

So for the OP. Im sure everyone would sensibly recomend you use HCG, not just for fertility but in the hope it would allow for better recovery come end of cycle/blast+cruising… If on TRT with a prescription and no real issue of ever being short of gear, then, maybe, it could be ditched.


#17

I’m on TRT and use it. Hard to describe some of the benefits, but it makes me feel better than not using it. I had a series of complications and surgeries following a vasectomy that went sideways and lived with testicular pain for years. hCG made this pain go away quite literally overnight. It keeps the boys full and normal looking too and test levels higher than just exogenous test alone, which may partially explain why it also markedly improves my libido.

For me it’s totally worth it, but to each his own.


#18

Remember this thread Dipping My Toe in the Water?

It’s the one where you said not using HCG was shitty advice. WTF?


#19

It is shitty advice? I am still saying use it… And Reed isnt saying not to run it, hes just saying why he isnt running it… Thats up to him; I still would use it.

If you are on TRT and dont give a fuck then thats the only time I would say ok its your choice, you will always hopefully have exogenous Test to replace your own on hand for the forseable future… However, even then, I b+c and plan to self medicate TRT in the future but I will always run hcg in the event i need to come off.


#20

You equivocate my friend, and I believe you are being disingenuous. Or, perhaps you are just getting wiser?