First Prep, Where to Start?

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:
I think the rough guideline of loosing 1 lb a week should help you figure out how much time you need.
[/quote]

Lol, I might need to start like next week… (My goal is to end the “prep” mid October)[/quote]

I have lost 21 lbs in 14 weeks so far, if that helps give you an idea at all.
[/quote]

Ya it definitely does. I’m think that I will probably need to lose 30lbs at least(205-175). So I’m think 20 weeks?

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Thanks GrizzlyBerg!

Ya, I imagine I’m no lower than 20% bf right now, but (at least this go around) I’m not shooting for anything in particular; although, it would be nice to reach single digit bf. The idea is to “test the waters” so to speak. See if I have it in me to prep for an actual show.

I’ve never considered doing a show, but if I actually look decent I might give it a shot down the road.

I just ordered a scale off Amazon. Should have it next week. Do you measure cooked or uncooked?

I will check out both logs (I’ve followed them a little). Both of you were much father along than I am when you started, but I’m sure I can learn a bunch. [/quote]

The skills of a cut and a prep are pretty much the same. Prep just has a lot more riding on it haha.

Depends on what the package/myfitnesspal has it listed as. My protein sources are almost always weighed cooked. Carbs, veggies, fuits, etc are weighed uncooked. Honestly as long as you are consistent that is all the matters. Choose a way and stick to it. That way your adjustment will be teh same no matter what.
[/quote]

That makes sense.

What if I dehydrate food, any thought?

For example, I make home made beef jerky and it’s definitely lighter afterwards.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Thanks GrizzlyBerg!

Ya, I imagine I’m no lower than 20% bf right now, but (at least this go around) I’m not shooting for anything in particular; although, it would be nice to reach single digit bf. The idea is to “test the waters” so to speak. See if I have it in me to prep for an actual show.

I’ve never considered doing a show, but if I actually look decent I might give it a shot down the road.

I just ordered a scale off Amazon. Should have it next week. Do you measure cooked or uncooked?

I will check out both logs (I’ve followed them a little). Both of you were much father along than I am when you started, but I’m sure I can learn a bunch. [/quote]

The skills of a cut and a prep are pretty much the same. Prep just has a lot more riding on it haha.

Depends on what the package/myfitnesspal has it listed as. My protein sources are almost always weighed cooked. Carbs, veggies, fuits, etc are weighed uncooked. Honestly as long as you are consistent that is all the matters. Choose a way and stick to it. That way your adjustment will be teh same no matter what.
[/quote]

That makes sense.

What if I dehydrate food, any thought?

For example, I make home made beef jerky and it’s definitely lighter afterwards. [/quote]

As long as your consistent in the measurements you use you will be fine.

Lotta really good advice already mentioned. I’ll probably reiterate a few things, but I’ll keep my thoughts short.

-Do you have a time frame for your cut, or are you just “cutting” and you’ll see where you get? If there’s a time frame, you need to plan, keep tabs, and make sure you’re on track every day.

-What does your current training look like? Have you been doing cardio, and if so how much/often? If you haven’t, you can get away with a lot less when you actually reach the point of having to throw it in. (you always want to do as little as needed!)

-What frequency is your current training split like? I mean, are you hitting every body part once a week? Once every 4 days? twice every week?

-What’s you carb tolerance look like? This can factor in to figuring out a good starting point.

-Track everything! You can’t know what’s working and what’s not if you can’t refer back to accurate data.

-When you make changes, make ONE at a time. If you shuffle every variable around at the same time, you won’t know what gave you the movement.

S

Yep, like Grizzly and Rattle said, as long as you’re consistent with your method of weighing your adjustments will be what matters. And as was also said, make the smallest possible changes necessary to elicit fat loss, and make changes as needed. Don’t use up all your fat loss “bullets” right away, or you’ll have nothing to add when fat loss inevitably stalls

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
Lotta really good advice already mentioned. I’ll probably reiterate a few things, but I’ll keep my thoughts short.

-Do you have a time frame for your cut, or are you just “cutting” and you’ll see where you get? If there’s a time frame, you need to plan, keep tabs, and make sure you’re on track every day.

-What does your current training look like? Have you been doing cardio, and if so how much/often? If you haven’t, you can get away with a lot less when you actually reach the point of having to throw it in. (you always want to do as little as needed!)

-What frequency is your current training split like? I mean, are you hitting every body part once a week? Once every 4 days? twice every week?

-What’s you carb tolerance look like? This can factor in to figuring out a good starting point.

-Track everything! You can’t know what’s working and what’s not if you can’t refer back to accurate data.

-When you make changes, make ONE at a time. If you shuffle every variable around at the same time, you won’t know what gave you the movement.

S[/quote]

Thanks for the input Stu!

To answer your questions:

1.) I don’t have a time frame per se. I would like to be finished by mid October, but I’m not sure when to start. I’m thinking the first week of June, which will give me around 20 weeks I believe.

2.) Current training is 5/3/1. I do very little cardio right now.

3.) I lift 4-6 days a week. The 4 main days are 5/3/1 and depending on how I feel I throw 2 extra days in. On the 2 extra days I re-do the FSL for squat, press, and bench and add a few extra exercises in for body parts I feel have been neglected. I don’t do an extra deadlift day though. I’ve found it’s to taxing for recovery.

A typical bench day would look like:

Bench 5/3/1+
Bench Jokers (1-4 sets)
Bench FSL 5x5-8
Dips 5x8-15
EZ-Curls 3-4x8-12
DB Curls super set with Band pull-downs 3-4x15-20

*I realize this is not your typical BB split and I will probably switch to the BB template at minimum and add additional movements in a more traditional body part split.

4.) I honestly am not sure on carb tolerance. I don’t gain weight very quickly even when I eat a ton of carbs, but I don’t just drop fat either if I reduce them. Not sure if that answers the question or not?

5.) I will definitely start tracking everything. I bought a scale to start weighing food and will pick up a journal for food tracking.

6.) One change at a time, got it!

[quote]RATTLEHEAD wrote:
As long as your consistent in the measurements you use you will be fine.
[/quote]

Got it!

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
Yep, like Grizzly and Rattle said, as long as you’re consistent with your method of weighing your adjustments will be what matters. And as was also said, make the smallest possible changes necessary to elicit fat loss, and make changes as needed. Don’t use up all your fat loss “bullets” right away, or you’ll have nothing to add when fat loss inevitably stalls[/quote]

Got it!

How do most people track fat loss? Pic, mirror, measurements, scale, or a combination? I don’t think I have a BodPod or anything like it near here, but want to research further. I could try calipers, but I have no idea how exactly to use them.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
Yep, like Grizzly and Rattle said, as long as you’re consistent with your method of weighing your adjustments will be what matters. And as was also said, make the smallest possible changes necessary to elicit fat loss, and make changes as needed. Don’t use up all your fat loss “bullets” right away, or you’ll have nothing to add when fat loss inevitably stalls[/quote]

Got it!

How do most people track fat loss? Pic, mirror, measurements, scale, or a combination? I don’t think I have a BodPod or anything like it near here, but want to research further. I could try calipers, but I have no idea how exactly to use them.

[/quote]

Pictures/mirror definitely help. Using look combined wit scale weight you can usually tell if the weight loss is fat or not. I haven’t used calipers or a taken any other measurement other than weight this prep. That is not to say you shouldn’t. Just might add confusion.

Strength is another good gauge. If yo are losing weight but maintaining/gaining strength it a good sign that the weight lost was fat not muscle.

[quote]GrizzlyBerg wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
Yep, like Grizzly and Rattle said, as long as you’re consistent with your method of weighing your adjustments will be what matters. And as was also said, make the smallest possible changes necessary to elicit fat loss, and make changes as needed. Don’t use up all your fat loss “bullets” right away, or you’ll have nothing to add when fat loss inevitably stalls[/quote]

Got it!

How do most people track fat loss? Pic, mirror, measurements, scale, or a combination? I don’t think I have a BodPod or anything like it near here, but want to research further. I could try calipers, but I have no idea how exactly to use them.

[/quote]

Pictures/mirror definitely help. Using look combined wit scale weight you can usually tell if the weight loss is fat or not. I haven’t used calipers or a taken any other measurement other than weight this prep. That is not to say you shouldn’t. Just might add confusion.

Strength is another good gauge. If yo are losing weight but maintaining/gaining strength it a good sign that the weight lost was fat not muscle. [/quote]

Awesome, thanks!

Reading this makes me think I would really need a prep coach.

[quote]xXSeraphimXx wrote:
Reading this makes me think I would really need a prep coach. [/quote]

I fully expect if I ever wanted to do I show (a real prep) I would absolutely need a coach. I’m a pretty detailed and analytically person too.

For weighing cooked/uncooked meat: if you make jerky, weigh all of it before you dehydrate it, then weigh it after and figure out the percentage. So if it comes out to 70% post compared to pre, just use that going forward. So 10oz dehydrated would equate to 14.2oz raw. (10 / 0.7). Hopefully that makes sense.

I have an excel spreadsheet I created years ago that I just add food to as I go. I would suggest doing the same as it really comes in handy (especially if you tend to eat the same things often like I do). I also measure my waist first thing in the morning a few times a week. I track that to make sure I am heading in the right direction. I also use calipers but, like the waist measurements, it’s just to make sure I am making progress, not to get any kind of accurate BF %.

And there’s great advice here so far. Getting your maintenance calories up will really help. And one of John Romaniello’s programs worked awesome for me. I thought I was going to be losing muscle like crazy, but it was just the opposite: lost nothing but fat (2 lbs per week). Best thing I ever did.

[quote]Tyler23 wrote:
For weighing cooked/uncooked meat: if you make jerky, weigh all of it before you dehydrate it, then weigh it after and figure out the percentage. So if it comes out to 70% post compared to pre, just use that going forward. So 10oz dehydrated would equate to 14.2oz raw. (10 / 0.7). Hopefully that makes sense.

I have an excel spreadsheet I created years ago that I just add food to as I go. I would suggest doing the same as it really comes in handy (especially if you tend to eat the same things often like I do). I also measure my waist first thing in the morning a few times a week. I track that to make sure I am heading in the right direction. I also use calipers but, like the waist measurements, it’s just to make sure I am making progress, not to get any kind of accurate BF %.

And there’s great advice here so far. Getting your maintenance calories up will really help. And one of John Romaniello’s programs worked awesome for me. I thought I was going to be losing muscle like crazy, but it was just the opposite: lost nothing but fat (2 lbs per week). Best thing I ever did. [/quote]

Awesome Tyler, thanks!

I probably will do the spreadsheet. I eat a lot of the same stuff over and over again.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:
Thanks for the input Stu!

To answer your questions:

1.) I don’t have a time frame per se. I would like to be finished by mid October, but I’m not sure when to start. I’m thinking the first week of June, which will give me around 20 weeks I believe. [/quote]

Ok. That’s good from the perspective that you can make a few mis-steps and play around a bit in terms of steady progress. I remember my first contest prep, I flip flopped quite a bit the first few weeks. Luckily I was in very decent shape to start with or it could have easily blown up in my face.

Realize that “progress” may not be made every week. If you have a deadline, and a rough idea of what you should weigh (not always easy, or even possible), then you’re essentially under the gun each week.

[quote]
2.) Current training is 5/3/1. I do very little cardio right now. [/quote]

There are two basic opinions of off season cardio. I tend to favor the group that believes that due to little to no cardio in the off season, you can possibly get more initial bang for your buck when you do throw it in. As to balancing your cardio with your cal deficit, everyone will be a little different in terms of how their body reacts, as well as how they mentally handle everything. Some folks prefer to do more overall work (lotta guys on here the last few years echoing these thoughts!) and ingest a bit more, while others just can’t be bothered, and actually prefer to suffer more food-wise.

Good to hear that you pay attention to your recovery. When on a serious cut, you’d be surprised how quickly some people can run themselves down. The name of the game is always muscle retention. Anything that works counter to maintaining the maximum amount of lbm possible should be questioned IMO.

[quote]
A typical bench day would look like:

Bench 5/3/1+
Bench Jokers (1-4 sets)
Bench FSL 5x5-8
Dips 5x8-15
EZ-Curls 3-4x8-12
DB Curls super set with Band pull-downs 3-4x15-20

*I realize this is not your typical BB split and I will probably switch to the BB template at minimum and add additional movements in a more traditional body part split. [/quote]

If you’re been making decent gains with this, don’t deviate too much,… at least not too quickly.

[quote]

4.) I honestly am not sure on carb tolerance. I don’t gain weight very quickly even when I eat a ton of carbs, but I don’t just drop fat either if I reduce them. Not sure if that answers the question or not? [/quote]

The easiest way to get a very general idea, is to accurately log what you’re eating for a week or two. Assess your macro choices, as well as breakdowns in terms of percentages (if enough protein, do you naturally lean toward more fat or more carb food choices), and take a good honest look at your current body comp.

:slight_smile:

S

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
The biggest piece of advice I would give you is to start focusing on building your metabolic capacity as much as possible before you start prep. If you aren’t already, start tracking your macros and progressively build them up. Don’t be afraid to push the envelope; add 5-10 g of carbs per week and 5 g of fat every 2-3 weeks and see how high you can get your numbers without excessive fat gain. Also, if you’re doing cardio regularly, start slowly taking it out until you’re doing little to no cardio and maintaining your weight while increasing macros.

This will give you your best chance of getting stage lean without extreme suffering. Too many guys start prep maintaining their weight on 300 carbs per day or less. This doesn’t give you a ton of room for drops. In the same way, too many guys are doing cardio 3-5 sessions per week (even if this is in the form of complexes or hiit). Where do you go from here when active fat loss becomes the goal?
[/quote]

This is the first time I’ve heard this. Not to threadjack, but do you suggest a similar approach while transitioning off of a cut? For example, cardio 5x/week, IFing, drastic cal cuts?

[quote]1 Man Island wrote:

[quote]pwolves17 wrote:
The biggest piece of advice I would give you is to start focusing on building your metabolic capacity as much as possible before you start prep. If you aren’t already, start tracking your macros and progressively build them up. Don’t be afraid to push the envelope; add 5-10 g of carbs per week and 5 g of fat every 2-3 weeks and see how high you can get your numbers without excessive fat gain. Also, if you’re doing cardio regularly, start slowly taking it out until you’re doing little to no cardio and maintaining your weight while increasing macros.

This will give you your best chance of getting stage lean without extreme suffering. Too many guys start prep maintaining their weight on 300 carbs per day or less. This doesn’t give you a ton of room for drops. In the same way, too many guys are doing cardio 3-5 sessions per week (even if this is in the form of complexes or hiit). Where do you go from here when active fat loss becomes the goal?
[/quote]

This is the first time I’ve heard this. Not to threadjack, but do you suggest a similar approach while transitioning off of a cut? For example, cardio 5x/week, IFing, drastic cal cuts?[/quote]

Yep, ideally you want to transition out of a cut by “reverse dieting,” by gradually reintroducing calories and slowly pulling back on cardio. You have to remember that your metabolic rate isn’t static; your maintenance calories may have been 3,000 at the start of your cut, but if you finish at 2,000 and decide to jump back to that 3,000 right away, you’re going to accumulate fat much more quickly than necessary. The first week after a cut you can make a bigger jump such as 20-30 g of carbs per day without much trouble, and after that generally 5-10 g per week is a reasonable rate to increase at. Obviously pay attention to the scale and the mirror to see how long you can keep this up before you’re gaining too quickly

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:
“Lots of great stuff”
[/quote]

Thanks again Stu!

Don’t worry about thread jacking, discuss away!

What are people’s thoughts on supplements?
Any must have’s?

I consistently use:
MAG-10
Elite Mineral Pro
Z-12

I occasionally use:
Metabolic Drive
Surge Recovery
Curcumin
HOT-ROX
SWF/Plazma
Power Drive

I rarely use/have tried:
Indigo
Flameout
Super Food
Alpha Male
TRIBEX

As you can probably tell I stick mostly with Biotest.