T Nation

First PH Cycle + PCT

Hello,
I am 26 years old 85kg 184cm and working out for about 7 years now (started much earlier but took it very seriously 7 years ago). I am thinking to give a try to PH and more specifically to Chosen 1 from Blackstone Labs (8-week cycle). First of all, I am concern about the fact that in the past I had a high Creatinine level without any kidney damage, and secondly, I am experiencing a slight hair loss (use of regain). My questions are:

  1. Will Chosen 1 increase my DHT and my Creatinine level? Should I worry about it?
  2. About the PCT should I use the PCT from Blackstone Labs or Nolva at 20 mg/day for 4 weeks?
  3. During my PCT can I use Clen or Laxogenin?
  1. It is likely suppressive as it is a pro hormone that converts to 1-test or DHB (BTW, what this converts to is a real steroid, and a fairly strong one), so your DHT levels from test conversion will be lower, but then the added androgen from the 1-test will add to hair loss. I don’t think that compound can convert to DHT, as it is already been acted on by the 5 alpha reductase enzyme to form DHB instead of DHT. The question is will your lower DHT (less test to convert since you are somewhat suppressed) plus the DHB you are introducing be harder on your hair line? I don’t know. I tend to think this would be fairly hair friendly (Boldenone which is the B in DHB like Test is the T in DHT is generally seen as being better on hair than test, so I assume the derivatives are a bit better on hair). Creatinine levels, I can’t speak to.

  2. Nolva is better. Probably a lot better. Generally over the counter PCT products are snake oil.

  3. Don’t use clen. Clen during your PCT will likely just burn off any gains you made during the cycle. I have never hear of the second item you listed, but my gut says probably not a good idea.

IMO, this is not a good cycle. You will get lower test levels while doing this. How much, and how much it impacts you will be individual.

If this were me, I would just run injectable DHB (the hormone this product supposedly converts into) with a test base. I think the injectable DHB is probably better on the liver, and I have a good idea how much I am actually getting (which is hard to know with prohormones). I would guess with the Blackstone cycle about 20% or so ends up being converted into 1-test or DHB. FWIW, injectable DHB is usually run at 300-400 mg/wk for beginners. I would guess you would need about 5X that in the oral PH to get a similar effect. Of course, first cycle should not have DHB in it. It should just be testosterone. FWIW, what I have outlined above with the injectable test and DHB, I will probably run fairly soon.

1 Like

Hey man, you put up my numbers when I was training for 6-7 years! Haha. If you are the BF you look like that looks good.

Also this creeps me out, are you my los twin?

Now to the important part.

  1. Your cycle is shitty. If you wanna cycle, do it right. Start with Test only, not a prohormone that converts to DHB. Also one that doesn’t aromatize. Your E2 is going down the drain. Makes you feel like shit.

I’ve heard both, that 1-Test is harsh on the kidneys as well as that it isn’t. Cant say more to that.

  1. Don’t do a PCT because you don’t need it, as you shouldn’t do this cycle.

  2. No. You eat a lot to keep the muscle, you are not cutting during PCT!

I read it is not that androgenic, but all hearsay.

I think it will be substantially more, the enzymes involved are efficient. But I agree nonetheless with your advice.

All the pictures I’ve seen it the Lord shows a good full head of long hair lol.

As to androgenic sides, I think mg per mg it is about as androgenic as test, but it is about twice as anabolic.

Do you have any info on absorption? I think it is pretty absorbable, but I’m not sure on how much it converts to dhb?

I would use more quotes, but t nation only allows me one per reply for some reason on mobile.

Real talk: if you can buy it in a store it’s unlikely to be worth buying. There are a handful of exceptions, but very expensive DHEA-based prohormones are not on that list.

Yes I know the ratio but apparently it is less androgenic in a real life setting.

Nope, that would be the part that determines the concentration in my opinion.

I can dig up some papers on the conversion through these two enzymes, but that takes me a while. They are both efficient.

I don’t have the quote problem on mobile

hahaha separated at birth XD

I am trying to avoid injectable that’s why I go for PH

What if I stack it with Androtest (Cyclodextrin 4-ADiol Complex) or run Androtest only cycle for 4-6 weeks (4 capsules/day not 6)?
If I go Androtest only cycle do I need cycle support?

Dude, just run a real cycle or don’t. This OTC bullshit is just that, bullshit. If that’s really you in your avatar, you’re in great shape and nothing you can get legally is going to push you much farther.

3 Likes

I know. Many make this mistake. Injectable is safer and more effective.

There was a discussion in the last few weeks, dbol is the only oral you could run solo without problems.

Yes 4-androstenediol is converted to T but only at a rate of 16%, so how much will you Tahoe to get to 150 mg T? Yes, 900 mg. With the cyclodextrine complex that’s more than 6 tablets. That’s more expensive than just running test, but yes you could try that (also side effects). I wouldn’t.

1 Like

All I can say is that I had high creatinine levels w/out kidney damage and my doctor said it could be from creatine.

I understand this, but injectable is better for your health. I was scared at the thought of giving myself shots. No big deal now. There is a popular saying that goes something like “if you aren’t ready to inject, then this game isn’t for you”, or another “if you aint pinning, you aint winning”. Using injectable test is the way to go if you want to go down this road.

3 Likes

It does yes and especially if you take too much (more than 3-5 g per day depending on muscle mass).

Thank you!! But a PH like Androtest I believe it can give me a boost.

I see. I will think about it but pills are so easy to take them Vs the needle :confused:

Only in a way. I find doing oral steroids to be more of a PITA than injectable. Depending on half life, I have to remember to take 3 pills a day. For them to be optimal, you want an empty stomach, so that adds complexity. Injectable test is 2X a week shot. Once you are used to pinning, it is a lot easier than orals.

Remember too that you might gain, but your gains need to be substantial, otherwise you will likely lose all of them during the PCT. With injectable test your margin of error is a lot higher because your gains are going to likely be more.

You are not wrong about it

This is the hard part for me but from what I understand I will have to get over it if I want to see good results from PEDs

all of them? :open_mouth:

It will be individual how much you keep. In general, you want to gain a lot, so that after PCT you have something to show for it. Many people have a drop off in training during PCT because they don’t feel very good (low energy), and they have low androgens circulating in their bodies. That is likely to cause a loss of muscle.

How long have you been looking into AAS? It isn’t a terrible idea to sit on the idea for a bit before jumping in. You may end up on TRT (not the end of the world, but something you should be prepared for if you want to use). I started on TRT, and it took me about a year after getting low T results to pull the trigger. With what I know now, I wouldn’t want to do a cycle and come off and PCT. Lots of guys end up doing blast and cruise because they keep more gains and feel better. Know that going in. There are logs here that start with a cycle + PCT, and end up finishing with a cruise.

Just know what you are getting into is all. There isn’t a free ride with this stuff. Most people who run a cycle continue to cycle or blast and cruise. I am not saying it is a bad choice to use, but know the trade-offs.

Sorry for the preaching.

It won’t. I used it before I started trt to test the efficacy. Total test went from low 300’s to low 400’s. It does a little, but not much. And with what you’d spend on those snake oil pills you’d be able to run an actual grownup cycle. There’s a reason this stuff is available to the public: there’s no risk of it actually working.

3 Likes

I need that kind of preaching.

Well over a year now. I was looking at SARMS first and now PH

I see, so in a way it is a waste of money…

If you compare the prices and what you get, it definitely is