T Nation

First PCT After 18 Week Cycle Failed, Need to Re-Do


#1
						Long story short, my first attempt at PCT after a 18 week test

cycle failed, and now I need to restart my test production.

I did a test cycle:

250 mg Test E every 5 days for 110 days.

7.25 mg aromasin everyday.

Did not have any problems with gyno, at the slightest tingle, I just took some aromasin and it was fine.

To get off the cycle, I was recommended some luliberin. To have the
greatest chance of this working, I first tapered off the TEST E, and two
weeks after the last Test E dose, I took:

100 mcg Luliberin (GnRH) for 10 days, for a total of 1 mg.

I also ran the aromasin during part of this PCT. I had no mood changes,
bad side effects from this protocol, and felt great a month or two
after. I thought I was in the clear. Cycle finished around Feb/March
2015.

The issue is, by September, I was feeling a bit lower energy. I did not
even have much desire for my girlfriend at the time, and just wrote it
off to a bad relationship.

I also remember in December 2015, I notice my left nipples was
sore/painful, so I realized it may be off the hormones stabilizing after
the cycle, and did not think it was much of a risk. Seeing as not much
test was being aromatized in my system.

This did not go away, in April 2016 I went to the doctor and took some tests.

Results are:

TSH 1.06 mU/L

Total Test - 6.3 nmol/L (low)

FSH 0.6 UI/L (low)

LH 2.5 UI/L

Prolactine 11.2 ug/L

Estradiol 49 pmol/L

Obviously, low testosterone is no fun and I have the traditional
symptoms. Echograph also found 30x35x7mm glandular tissue left breast,
12x10x5 glandular tissue right breast (ie gyno). That really sucks.

I took a few mg of aromasin and mild dose of letro for 2 weeks, till the
nipples were no longer sore, while trying to decide what to do. The
endocrinologist I am seeing is understanding, but slow to make progress,
because there is 2 months time between each visit.

So, what thoughts do you guys have on what I could have done
differently. More importantly, what can be done now? I'm 29. I would
like to have an outcome that reduces the gyno, as well as goes and some
type of PCT treatment that will boost my natural test levels, so I don't
have to do a cycle.

I'm open to ideas, specifically, how to increase my post-cycle natural
test, how to reduce the gyno, even if this involves doing another test
cycle so I can run letrozole with it, etc.


#2

Please read the stickies found here: https://forums.t-nation.com/t/about-the-t-replacement-category/38/2?u=ksman

  • advice for new guys
  • things that damage your hormones
  • protocol for injections
  • finding a TRT doc
  • HPTA restart <-----

#3

Hi,

I’ve read the stickiest and various information.

Firstly, what do you think is the best way forward? Work with the doctor to restore the HPTA, run some PCT Nolva, or maybe run another TEST cycle long enough to do a bunch of letro for the gyno (and in this case, what protocol would be recommended)?

Also, what do you think about toremifene? Have seen some studies that say it is very effective on breast tissue and as PCT.


#4

#6

@KSman

Hey, thanks for the link to the stickies, I have two questions:

-If I have been off cycle for a year with HPTA shut down (as is apparent by the blood tests), does it make less sense to do Hcg before Nolva for the restart? I’m not sure if the testes also need a restart, or are super sensitive to LH because of no exposure to it.

-Also, if you planned to never do a cycle again (as is the case with me), is there anything else you would do PCT-wise make sure natural test levels are as high as possible?


#7

Personally I would run HCG to get more gas in the tank and then switch to a Serm. You will feel better faster. However, if you run hCG, you will definitely need to run it with an AI. The restsrt protocol referenced here explains the details. I’m doing that now myself.

As far as doing things to keep your natural testosterone higher, without drugs – well – that’s a matter of genetics and environment. However it’s known that weightlifting, protein, vitamin D, and zinc all have been proven to raise T - but age, environment, and genetics all factor in and there’s no way to tell how far you can go natural, or how long.

Besides bro - never cycle again? I’ve heard that before :wink:


#8

You can do SERM or hCG then a SERM. Read the sticky again and note anastrozole during and post the PCT phase.


#9

Well, I realize now that before the cycle my testosterone was already pretty high. I barely felt a difference on test, and the only difference was I could do 2-3 more pullups and kick a little bit harder. (I worked out a lot already).

My younger self overevaluated the benefit of 3-5% extra strength… Really not worth all the hassle and current problems.


#10

Yes, I’ve read the PCT sticky, and will go with that, while having my endrocrinologist give me blood tests frequently.

For the gyno, I would discuss it also with the endo. It is good to be informed.

@KSman
I’ve also taken some finesteride for hair loss, do you have any other information on what the nature of the epigenetic changes might be? More importantly are they reversible? Do you have more info or research about this. Would a compound like masteron, which has virilization effects, be able to reverse them?