T Nation

First Havoc Cycle... Upping Dosage?


Running a cycle of havoc initially planned as a simple:
Liver support + fish oils also.

PCT as planned is:
40/40/20 of nolva along with some tribulus+zma+liver support.

Currently in my second week... so far gains have been fairly small with the only sides being some increased fatigue in my posterior chain and calfs when walking around.

Think it would be worth upping to 20/30/40/40? I say this after some extra reading on this pro-steroid suggests that 40mg is the "sweet spot" for many users... and I would like to extend my time in this range as much as possible.

Thank you for any input...


Well I would be upping on monday if I am... would be nice to have some input before then.

(apologies for bump)


I have never used any epi prohormones but have researched them quite a bit and it seems that most people who have used feel the 20mg first week dosage is to weak. If you have a good liver/cholesterol support upping to a dosage of 30/30/40/40 is not a bad idea. You are going to get shutdown at 20mg so you might as well try and yield the best results. Of course, make sure you have a proper PCT (serm not a supplement) such as tamoxifen. Check out the supplement sticky at the top, lots of good info


if your going this route why not just do 40mg out the gate. I don't understand a tapering up of a pro hormone or any steroid for that matter.


After my experience with Havoc I'd say this is a valid point. The bottle probably says to taper up only because there isn't enough to use one bottle for 4 weeks at 40mg. I started at 30mg and went up to 40mg. 40mg was much better than 30mg. 1 cap am 2 pre workout (few hours before the workout) 1 cap pm. I was lifting mid afternoon-early evening so the doses were pretty evenly spaced.