T Nation

First Ever Cycle

I’m an old time lurker here who has been trying to understand about cycles.

A brief background about me:

Lost like 15% fat and 20kg weight but still have softness in my body specially around tummy area and chest.

I have been continuously doing weight training and have been okish with my diet daily hitting my protien of almost equivalent of my body weight.

My stats are 181Cm/around 190pounds.

I dont look fat with clothes infact people around me in gym ask me to bulk but having read a lot on this forum as well due to softness in my body, i know i cant bulk and have to lose all the flab.

To reduce softness (this after losing all the extra weight by like last year),my trainer thought of a cycle to start.

My trainer has suggested cycle of Ana, Stan, T3 and Clen.

Week 1- 10mg of Ana and Stan. 20 mg of T3 and 40mcg of Clen
Week 2- 20Mg of Ana, Stan and T3 with same clen
Week 3- 20mg of Ana, 30mg of Stan and 20mg of T3 with clen
Week 4- 30mg Ana, 40 of Stan and 20mg for T3.

Alongwith this i’m having L-cartnine, CLA and Fish oil.

My weight training schedule is:

Mon- Back and Biceps
Tues- Shoulders
Wed- Legs
Thurs- Chest and Tri
Fri- Back
Sat- Legs

My schedule always includes compound exercise everyday.

My question to all you experts is to suggest if the cycle is right or i should have something else.

Thanks in advance.

What the hell, where do personal trainers get these cycles from? Do they try it themselves? Don’t fuck with your thyroid hormone unless you are an IFBB pro bodybuilder or a really advanced recreational cyclist (punny).

As to var or Stan, pick one, not both. I’ve never used Stan and never will however I’ll personally say I really like Anavar, nice strength gains, lean mass, vicious pumpz that make you need to sit down in the middle of a workout, a hard look to one’s muscles, high blood pressure… Wait… That’s not good (keep in mind this is on 25mg daily, I appear to be sensitive/ a good responder to the compound). Both Anavar and stanozolol will more than likely do a phat number on your lipid profile, Stan is more hepatotoxic (and toxic in general) than var, oxandrolone is less liver toxic as it is one of the only hormones that a large percentage is metabolized via the kidneys not the liver. Interestingly Anavar is one of the only anabolic steroids I can’t find adverse case reports on, this doesn’t mean it’s safe though, it may be on the milder side of anabolic steroids however it’s still an anabolic steroid and must therefore be treated with respect. Use antioxidant and cholesterol supporting supplements on var or Stan, make sure to get plenty of cardiovascular exercise

Secondly, running var or Stan on a first cycle is a bad idea, I’m not going to give you cycle advice as I’m not comfortable dishing that out however a 1st cycle should be test only. Clen on a first cycle is also ridiculous. Using AAS to reduce “softness” is not the best idea, to reduce body fat percentage diet will play a big role for some, focus on diet more than drugs

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This is a bad idea on severa levels. Let me guess, your trainer also happens to be the guy who can supply you with these pills?

Your terminology tells me that you need to get more educated. Frankly, I’ve never heard anybody refer to those steroids like that. Using T3 is stupid for a first cycle. This is a THYROID hormone and not to be messed with, especially for a new user.

A 4 week cycle?? WTF? You’re just going to fuck up your natural test production. And I don’t see any post cycle therapy listed. I disagree a little with @unreal24278. A decent test cycle can reduce bodyfat. But he’s right that this needs to be combined with diet and lifting.

I’m not trying to burn you but you need to educate yourself before you step on this road. You’re trainer is an ignorant asshole trying to get you to do a cycle like this.

Watching . . . this train wreck.

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Which part do you disagree with? Just curious

Well testosterone is the main body fat burner and I know when I started taking testosterone my body fat dropped significantly and I didn’t make huge changes to my diet

I agree with you @studhammer but I would say Testosterone supports lean muscle mass and lean muscle mass supports fat burning. Wouldnt you agree @unreal24278?

Androgens do support/stimulate lipolysis, especially androgens that bind strongly to the AR, therefore a direct fat burning mechanism is def there. An increased amount of LBM will also increase metabolism therefore increasing the caloric needs of an individual. I however don’t think that one should resort to anabolic steroids as fat burners, using winny and eating like shit won’t make a fat physique appear lean and hard (maybe tren will lol).

An example of how important diet is would be a test only cycle, eat everything in sight and you’ll bulk up nicely but you won’t be lean and shredded, cut on test only and you’ll get shredded, why? Because diet

I disagree whole heartedly. I say get on those danged ol anabolics and let the fat sort itself out. That’s what mamma always told me so it must be true.

your mom gave you advice on how to effectively use anabolic steroids? Is your mom a competitive bodybuilder? (I know the above statement was a joke, I’m playing along)

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Thanks guys for taking out the time to read and reply.

I still havent started this cycle and thats why wanted to get advice from experts like you.

Regarding Diet, i can confirm that my diet as of now is good i.e. taking protein at bodyweight level, carbs at around 150 gm and rest are fats to come out around 2100 cals.

I agree with everything here, especially the tren. That shit is magic in a bottle. But I do believe that test will help with insulin sensitivity and return our hormone profiles similar to our teens when we could everything in sight and not gain weight.

I just think its wrong to tell everybody to lose weight before starting a cycle or TRT. Their shitty profile probably contributed to their weight gain and gear definitely will help them lose fat.

I’ve heard this before lol, can’t attest to it though as I’ve never used it and likely never will, even if I compete.

Well the issue is overweight people are more likely to come into issues with gear, people with excess fat and adipose tissue usually tend to have more issues with aromatase then non overweight individuals, adipose tissue contains aromatase enzyme (I think), therefore it’s a logical conclusion to make that overweight people are more likely to need ancillaries such as an AI to control estrogen, this comes with its own risks with regard to skewed cholesterol levels, which for an overweight person will put them at more risk than a lean individual as LDL oxidation will be greater, esp if the individual has impaired insulin sensitivity.

Secondly, the use of orals such as oxandrolone or stanozolol tend to have very drastic, negative effects on cholesterol ratios, while this isn’t as much of an issue if the individual takes proper care of their diet, aerobic exercise, antioxidant supplements, for an overweight individual, a very low HDL can spell for disaster with regards to CVD risk in overweight individuals. I actually have impaired insulin sensitivity, it isn’t due to diabetes or anything though, it appears my body cannot tolerate high GI carbohydrates, I get a sharp spike of insulin and a delayed hypoglycemic response, always been fructose intolerant, was confirmed via glucose tolerance test, my glucose tolerance is (barely) in the normal range, literally 0.1 points within normal, however apparently that’s fine and I’m not too worried about it.

My cholesterol is probs fucked right now, I’m on var (25mgs/day) however I find it gives me fantastic results, the stuff is awesome, I take lots of antioxidant supps, get tons of aerobic exercise, and I’m fairly lean (probs leaning on 13 percent BF). although actually my cholesterol might not be that bad… Taking Red yeast rice, stuff has lovastatin in it.

Anyhow taking orals like winny while overweight with impaired insulin sensitivity is asking for potential serious cardiovascular damage with regards to progression of CHD. If overweight people would stick to test it’d be (while still not as safe as a trained individual doing it) a whole lot safer than using orals. Personally I’d like to see an individual try lose some weight before cycling, it shows the individual is at least commited to their diet and working out. Using gear may counteract many of the positive effects regular exercise gives us, if an overweight individual can’t lose the weight no matter what, why not hop on TRT, cut some weight and then cycle? Supraphysiologic doses of AAS are generally best kept to individuals who are in good shape to start off with

I dont disagree with you at all brother.

Are you taking NAC and/or milk thistle for liver function. That may improve your cholesterol.

Yes taking NAC, milk thistle, coq-10, Red yeast Rice, fish oil, Curcumin and a few others. I haven’t gotten my cholesterol tested, just hypothesizing it’s fucked because… Anavar. Animal models have shown Curcumin can prevent cardiac remodelling from various causes such as chronic renal failure, high blood pressure etc, coq-10 appears to be able to improve endothelial function and possibly decrease cardiac mass and a host of other benefits and the others that I take also tend to have scientific backing

I’d post more details on the mechanisms but it’s super late here and I’m tired.

I just placed an order and I wanted to add anavar so bad but I decided to be good and not do any orals this blast. I just had my annual and my cholesterol went down.

I’m gonna do a Test/NPP blast for about 20 weeks. Hope to gain some good LBM.

Anavar is far less hepatotoxic mg for mg compared to other orals as it is largely metabolized via the kidneys. Development of cholastasis, hepatocellular carcinoma, Pelosis hepatis is virtually unheard of from even high doses (80mg) of oxandrolone, not to say it hasn’t happened I just haven’t seen a single case report. Issue with var is the havoc it can wreck on cholesterol, test/NPP is a better option, however everyone reacts differently, I find var to be a very efficient anabolic. Only been on for a few days and vascularity/ hardness is visibly up, pumps are insane (have to sit down in between deadlift sets), couldn’t possibly ask for more!!! I’m only using it for about 6 weeks tho, good luck with the blast. My coronary arteries are currently screaming at me as the stenosis sets in, aaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Aren’t you like 210lbs at 5’7 while being relatively lean? How much more lean mass could you possibly ask for???

You’re close. About 205 at about 17-19%. My back is pretty wide and I’m somewhat thick (about 46") but I think my legs are lacking.

I’ve taken var before, used to cramp up wiping my ass!! OUCH :smiley:

I see your avatar and always assume that it’s actually you, which never meshes well with your knowledge base. Thanks for clearing up my dissonance.