T Nation

First Ever Cycle (Testosterone Propionate)

A little about me,

I have been training with pretty high intensity since I was 25 (I am 29 now) 5 days a week, I have been able to get what I think is a pretty impressive physic, I am by no means huge or ripped but it’s pretty obvious just my looking at me that I go to the gym regularly, I have always suffered from tiredness and low energy, although in the gym I hit it pretty hard.

I got a blood test done about 4 months ago to see how my levels were doing, Needless to say I was disappointed in the results, I go to the gym religiously and take a lot of supplements that should help boost testosterone (Zinc, Fish Oil, Vitamin D3, DIM), I thought my levels would be in the upper range and instead they are in the middle lower range, My doctor said he could prescribe me TRT but it would not be covered by insurance since my Test levels are not low enough to be considered a medical necessity, Here are my blood test results:

Total Testosterone: 465 (250-1100 ng/dL)
Free Testosterone: 51.8 (35.0-155.0 pg/mL)
Estradol: 38 ( <OR = 39 pg/mL)

Anyways I have always thought about doing a Test Cycle but wanted to see how far I can make it naturally, At this point I think I have peaked as my lifts have not gone up in 6 months, Seeing my test levels has also motivated me to start the cycle sooner rather than later, Below is my lift progress at the gym:

3 years ago:
Height: 5’7
Weight: 142LBS
Bench: 110LBS (5 Reps)
Squat: 130LBS (5 Reps)
Deadlifts: 130LBS (5 Reps)

My stats now:
Weight: 168LBS (5 reps)
Bench: 190LBS (5 reps)
Squat: 300LBS (5 reps)
Deadlift: 340LBS (5 reps)

I currently have 3 Vials of Test Prop (10mL vials of 100mg/l) and Toremifene Cictrate for PCT, I plan to do 300mg a week of Test Prop (75mg eod) for 10 weeks and will be taking some natural anti estrogens (such as DIM), However if I start to feel the effects of high estrogen I will be taking the Foremifene early, Although I only have 50 pills so I don’t know if I have enough for my PCT if I take it during the cycle.

Sorry for the long post just wanted to put as much info as possible, what do you guys think? Any reason why I shouldn’t do this?

You are going to want to start to consult with a physician. You are not to far from TrT. I would think about grabbing another bottle of Test and doing 400-500mgs for 12-14 weeks. You might not even need the AI and I would only use it if needed. I wouldn’t start off the bat taking it on a schedule.

Yea i was surprise at the numbers since i lift heavy 5X a week and take a lot of supplements, Imagine how much lower my numbers would be if i didn’t go to the gym and eat healthy.

I am going to try the 300mg a week since i don’t know how i will react to it, The gear that i have is just enough to complete a 10 week cycle.

Like i said even though i have the test level of a 50 year old it’s apparently not low enough to be covered by insurance.

Any other suggestions or feedback would be appreciated, I will probably start this week if all goes well.

I’ll jump in and say that tormefine is probably not an ideal pct drug. I know it’s been used before, but it’s not what’s typically recommended.

And your doctor was offering you trt. If the only barrier is insurance then you’ll be old and grey by the time they get around to paying for your treatment. I don’t know what the percentages are, but I would estimate that the number of men who are on trt and have insurance paying for it are in the single digits. My insurance company (one of the biggest in the country) told me flat out that they do not cover trt unless levels are below 200. They have their own range seperate from standard medical guidelines because they have no interest in covering that treatment. So after your cycle you should consider seeing your doctor again and finding out what legitimate treatment will cost you. We spend money on lots of dumb things, so cutting back on dumb stuff and using the money for the betterment of your health is absolutely worth thinking about.

Question.

How much do you pay for trt without insurance?
Do you just have to pay for test or hcg and adex as well? If so how much for each generally
Same question for poster did your doc tell tku about how much it wouldn’t cost etc?

$365/mo for test, hCg, adex, vitamins, and office visits are free. They come to me to draw blood and that is also free.

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Why wouldn’t tormefine be ideal for PCT? I thought it was a serm similar to nolvadex.

Same drug class, but not as effective. Wisdom of crowds (plus a lot of data) shows that Nolva is the best choice for pct.

Alright guys I did it, 75mg of Test Prop in my quads, This is my first time doing an injection and I was scared as shit, I think I might have wasted a bit of T as I didn’t push the syringe all the way (think I left 0.1ml in the syringe), No way was I going to jab myself again for 0.1ml of Testosterone.

I used a 25G needle which was almost painless, My leg is a little sore but it was my first time, I think it was nerves more than anything, I also acquired some Anastrozole in case I get some estrogen sides.

We will see how everything goes, My next shot is on Friday which I am hoping goes a bit smoother.

Is there any particular reason you went with prop rather than enanthate?

No reason at all, It’s just what i had on hand.

I probably won’t do Test Prop again after doing this cycle, I woke up today and my quad is pretty sore, I heard it’s just how Test Prop works, The injection site itself is fine i cant even tell where i injected, No red marks or anything.

The reason I asked is because it sounds like you aren’t a big fan of sticking yourself which is normal I don’t like it either. With prop yoh have to pin every day or every other day with enanthate you can pin every 3 days or twice a week.

I pin my glutes rarely have I had any pip and if I do I find it much more manageable in my ass cheek than my quad.

Took my second dose of 75MG Test Prop yesterday, I have to say the PIP sucks ass, My leg from the first shot on wednesday is only now starting to feel better, It was massively sore on Thursday and Friday.

I only have 5/8 needles which from what i heard are too short for glute shots, I ordered some 1 inch needles which should be here sometime next week, Until then i am going to have to stick to quads, I also ordered Anastrozole which arrives yesterday.

So far i don’t feel any different, I heard that Prop is fast acting so i am hoping to see some changes by next week.

To Reiterate this is what my cycle consists of:

300mg Test Prop per week (EOD Shots) for 8-10 Weeks
0.5mg Anastrozole (EOD)

PCT:
Toremifene

That’s a crazy arimidex dose for 300mg of a short ester and frequent injecting (you have lower estrogen peaks on smaller more frequent dosages), i mean it depends from person to person but honostely… you could have crashed your estrogen already… Don’t use an AI unless you absoloutely have to! and even then use SMALL dosages were talking very conservative dosages.
You need Estrogen to build muscle, you can’t build that much muscle without it… I would recommend stopping the arimidex ASAP and only starting at a small dosages if you have unbearable side effects (try 0.25mg EOD then tapering up if you need to)

My first test blast I ran it with a small dose of AI which was enough to crash me (i’m an overresponder), I gained so little compared to my second blast without an AI… it’s a crazy difference

Pinning every other day sucks balls.

You could just do mon/wed/fri if you prefer

@123kdd100 Thank you for the suggestion, I have always had estrogen levels in the upper normal range which is why I have been taking DIM for a while, I will go ahead and follow your advice and not take any arimidex unless I start feeling sides.

@Yogi1 Yes it does suck to pin so often but from my research it is recommended to take Test Prop EOD due to the half life issue.

Also I am planning to increase the dosage to 350mg a week as I have heard that 300mg might not be enough, I will of course need to buy another Vial as I only have enough for 7 weeks @ 350mg/week.

I just finished my 4th injection which officially completes my first week of Test Prop, Since I am upping my dose to the 350mg range per week I injected with around 90mg, I do not feel any difference as of yet, My weight also remains unchanged.

Also HOLY SHIT THE PROP PAIN IS REAL! The injection from sunday has had my leg crippled the whole day, The injection itself is painless and I have no redness or swelling, The real pain starts the next day and gets worse on the second day, I have only injected my quads since I only have a 5/8 needle, however I am getting my 1 inch needles tomorrow so I will be rotating between quads and glutes.

I tried injecting much slower this time around, About 1 minute to push out the 0.9ml, We will see if that makes a difference.

Update:

I did my first glute shot on Thursday and omg it is so much better, The quad shots are extremely debilitating and its basically 3-4 days of crippling pain, The glute shot is barely noticeable.

Also because I cant stand the Prop pain and cant see myself pinning 4 times a week for 10 weeks I am switching to Testosterone Enanthate for the remainder of my cycle, I ordered 2 vials of Test E which come in 300mg/mL concentration and I will be shooting this 2 times per week (500mg/week).

Also on Friday (a week and a half into the cycle) was the first time I really felt a difference, I had more energy throughout the day and while my lifts have not increased I did not have the post workout sourness that I usually have, We will see how things go once I switch to the Test E next week.

Things I have learned about Test Prop:

1.) It is not for beginners, 4 shots a week is too much.

2.) It is actually more expensive in the long run, Since you have to pin 4 times a week it will last half the time compared to Test E and Test C.

3.) Pinning quads is terrible, The pain starts coming in around 5 hours and gets worse on the second day.

4.) I started feeling the effects on the second week, Mainly more energy and higher libido, I have not experienced any strength gains yet.

Today is 3 weeks since I started the cycle, I have moved fully to Test E 500mg per week, The Test E is so much better than the Test Prop, There is little to no pain with the Test E and only 2 pins per week is a plus.

I started having pretty bad bloating and nipple sensitivity about 10 days after starting the cycle, This is while taking 0.25mg of Anastrozole, I also forgot to mention that I have been taking the hairloss drug Finesteride for 2 years which is why my Estrogen level was at 39 even before starting the cycle, Long story short I have upped my Anastrozole dosage to 0.5mg per day which has completely taken care of the bloat and gyno sides.

I have not noticed any strength increases so far but I have noticed a significant decrease in post workout soreness, My libido is also sky high compared to what it was before, I am getting lots of random erections which has not happened in a while, The only other notable change is that I have gone up 6 lbs in weight, I was actually up as much as 9 lbs but after increasing the Anastrozole dosage I am down to 6 pounds.

Summery:

1.) 3 Weeks into cycle (Test Prop for the first 2 weeks @ 300mg/Week, Now on Test E 500mg/week.

2.) Had to increase Anastrozole dosage, 0.5mg per day has eliminated sides (bloat/gyno)

3.) No strength increase so far but increased in libido and also a lot more energy

4.) Up 6lbs in first 3 weeks

Today was my best day so far, I have been struggling with a bloated stomach and sensitive nipples since week 2, However today I felt like I had 0 bloat and no nipple sensitivity, I felt great and very lean, hopefully this means the Anastrozol is finally doing its job.

I have also been getting plenty of comments about my size increase as of last week, Lots of people have been telling me that I look bigger and am getting plenty of comments from the women :smile:

I started the cycle at around 16% bodyfat and as of today I am down to 14% bodyfat and my abs are making an appearance, I am not complaining about the BF decrease but the intention was to gain muscle and then loose fat post cycle, I guess I underestimated how efficient Testosterone is at burning calories because obviously I am not eating enough even though I increased my calories at the start of the cycle.

I am currently eating around 2500 Calories and about 150G of Protein, I am planning to increase to 3000 Calories and 200G of protein.

Stats so far:

Bodyweight: 180lbs (Up 12 pounds)
Bench: 210lbs (Up 20 pounds)
Squat: 330lbs (Up 30 pounds)
Deadlift: 380lbs (Up 40 pounds)

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