T Nation

First Cycle

Hey anyone, or the man (BODZ)–I have recieved many suggestions to try the Gramabol Cycle or the Test Enanthate cycle as my first steroid cycle. Honestly, which one would be better?? I want to be huge, not huge and chubby (Obviously nobody wants to be huge and chubby, but I would like to be as lean as possible). Also, if the Test Enanthate cycle is the one to try, then should I use 600 mg/wk for 16 wks or should I use 1000 mg/wk (divided into two weekly injections of 500 mg) for 6 or 8 wks?? Or something else?? PLEASE GIVE ME SOME SUGGESTIONS!!!

I don’t like long acting esters. They stay in the system too long and you get less testosterone per mg (acetate~87.28%, propionate~83.73%, enanthate~73.86%, and undecanoate~64.86%). I think that the only time long esters should be used is at the beginning of the cycle or timed so it is primarily out of the system by the end. If you were to do the gramabol cycle I would use 3000mg of long acting esters on day one and follow with daily or EOD injections of a much shorter ester. Of course, this is all assuming that you would have access to what you need which is not usually the case. Many go for what is cheapest and available. I prefer to wait and get everything I need first. Planning and knowing exactly what will or might take place is very important to me. This includes making sure your diet and training are known thoroughly ahead of time and adjustments accounted for. So when you get bigger, you have to eat more. To cut down on water retention and fat gain I suggest arimidex, clomid, and maybe some T3 (I guess T2 could be substituted but it is more expensive for me).

Rex, it depends on what you want or in this case don’t want. If you want size without many side effects, as I believe you said in your previous post, then use the Enanthate cycle. If you use this cycle, use 600mg once a week for 16 weeks, taking clomid at 50mg every day and finishing with 3-4 weeks of clomid post-cycle. If you don’t care about getting allot of side effects and are ready to deal with them, and want massive gains, use the Grammabol cycle, exactely as Brock specified. He was pretty specific on how to deal with the side-effect issues. Your first cycle is your best cycle. Either one of these would constitute a good first cycle. Just weigh out the side-effects vs. what you want. I think the biggest ones are hair loss and bad acne. I have had bad acne on a cycle that didn’t let me wear a tank top for almost a year, due to pigment scarring. I was fortunate that I didn’t experience major hair loss, some recession around the frontal sides, but nothing major. I’m 41 now, tried steroids from 35-39, and still have a full head of hair. You would probably gain a minimum of 20lbs on the Enanthate cycle and 30-40lbs on the Gamabol cycle. That is of course, if you train hard and eat right.

Go with the Test. on your first cycle. 1000mg divided into two weekly doses. I finished my 1st cycle in about 10 years a couple of months ago. It was 1000mg. Test. Enanthate / week using two injections / week. Started Clomid on the 3rde week of the cycle and used it one week after the cycle ended (six week cycle). I put on about 18-23lbs. Gotta eat bro. Don’t be a fool and watch calories in an effort to keep the fat gain down. I was one “happy mofo” stuffing my face for six weeks.

I have to disagree with John here on this one. In a two week cycle it would make a lot of sense to use a short acting ester. But, with a long cycle, such as these, it doesn’t matter what you use. Your own hormonal production will be off no matter what you use. His suggestion of using a shorter acting ester EOD is just more pain, more holes, more needles. He is keeping his own production off by turning a short acting ester into a long one, by injecting so often. Again, his theories are prudent in a two week cycle, but not in a long one. Post cycle his own production will be on track only one week before yours at the best. Save yourself some dough.

Bodz, when I did the cycle I got great results but despite the fact I know how to eat and train correctly, I got a huge crash at the end even using Brock’s suggestions. It took me roughly 6 weeks to fully recover when using sustanon. Ever since I have either used short acting esters through out or at the end so much less will be in the system at the end to cause inhibition. I don’t have ANY problems recovering now. I would like to make it clear that I did not say that natural production would not be affected by using this method, only that recovery would be easier afterwards. Also, why would you suggest that my theory is only prudent for a two week cycle? The whole point is to get the drugs into and out of your system fast so recovery would be faster. The same applies here. It is also a good idea because some unforseen events may keep you from continuing the cycle and at least this way you could stop midway with much better recovery. I have found this way to be cheaper for me as well. The sustanon goes for usually about $10-16 an amp around here and I got the equivalent at less than $4. BTW, any amount of extra time spent trying to recover natural production at the end is hell for me. Even one week can be devastating and it would actually be like 2-3 weeks difference if using sustanon (I’ve done both). I forgot to mention to add 1-1.25mg of finasteride per day in my last post. I would also like to suggest that it may only be necessary to do the cycle for 8 weeks. The other two weeks did not yeild much gains to make it worth while for me.

John, good follow up post. That is what we are here for, to learn from each other. In your case, you found it easier to transition to being normal by using fast acting testosterone analogs. I do agree with using this for short cycles (two weeks); In anticipating a possible interruption in your cycle (hopefully, you planned ahead, so as not to let this happen…but, as you stated, anything can happen) and I also agree with taking it at the end of a cycle to semi-prepare you for the inevitable crash (In your case, pretty hard). John, you have found what works for you, and that is what this game is all about. Just like diets, no cycle works the same for everyone.

Absolutely correct! The only real world advice I can give is from the experiences I have had. Everyone is different but knowing what works for others can give someone ideas that they may not have thought of. I always try to have the mindset of “always be prepared.” (Guess what that’s from) This means research, experimentation, and hopefully not repeating the same mistakes. I’ve learned my lesson from the first cycle and made the correct adjustments. I’m just passing along the info and trying to keep people from making the same mistakes. As you said, we’re here to learn from each other.

Thanx guys for the advice and info. John U—What short acting testosterones would you suggest?? If I decided to use them, then I would stack the short acting testosterones with 50 mg Tren Acetate/day, 50 mg Stanazolol/day, and .25 mg Arimidex/day for 8 wks. What short acting testosterones would you stack with this cycle and how much?? Thanx agains guys!!

A couple things. Bill Roberts suggests 8 weeks cycles (if you’re not going to do the super short 2 on 4 off), as it’s easier to get testicular production (HTTA axis) up and running again at the end. I would think this would mean not using sust. at the end as it lasts up to 3 or 4 weeks. The 16 weeks of enanthate would constitute a very long cycle.

Short acting testosterones are also known for more bloating/gyno/ side effects.

Acetate, propionate, and/or phenylpropionate. 75mg ED or 150mg EOD for ~600mg per week and 150mg ED or 300mg EOD for ~1000mg per week. It depends on what you have done before but I would at least use 600mg per week with any cycle. The trenbolone and stanazolol work great together even without the test.

HEY BRI!! What would be your suggestion then?? Should I do the Enanthate for 6-8 wks like the cycle I described in the post??