T Nation

First Cycle

Goals are mass and strength, my question is on dosages. Deca and Test.
Deca 200 mg
Test 400 mg
or
Deca 300 mg
Test 300 mg for eight weeks. Looking to make gains but keep it safe.

Drop the deca. do more research. up test dose. find something else to stack with it. oh and do more research. not being a dick. just think you need to learn more before you do something that you may regret.

Weeks

1…800mgs test, 600 deca, 30mg dbol-ed

2-6…400, 200, 30ed

7-8…400, drop deca, 50ed

Research arimidex, nolvadex, and clomid yourself for PCT. As well as Alpha Male.

A lot of people on these boards don’t like deca, but I happen to love it and it works fantastic for me and I don’t have much trouble bouncing back from it either. I say try it.

Or just substitute equipoise for the deca in the same amounts.

Hey bro, if this is truly your first cycle then you do not need anywhere near either of the dosages that the other two guys mentioned. you will respond to whatever you do and you will respond to lower dosages. many people will tell you to go all out on your first cycle but that’s a bunch of crap. think health first and like the first guy said do more research. why would you even think about that many mg’s per week on your first cycle when you could grow from half of what all of you listed. i wouldn’t even recommend the test in your first cycle either as it is more androgenic than you need right now. stick with drugs with a higher anabolic to androgenic ratio at first and experiment with the dosages to find how much you need to grow. why do 600 mg’s if you will grow nicely on 250 mg? all you are doing is making it harder for your body to keep responding to dosages that would allow you to grow for the first 2 to 3 years of anabolic/androgenic with good lean mass retention and lowered chances for side effects. if you jump right into test on your first cycle then you are wasting a “good place to go” once you stall with milder drugs such as such as deca or eq or anavar or primobolan or dbol. think about your future health and your future drug expenses while planning your cycles as well. if mass and strength are your goals for your first cycle then think about 200 to 300 mg’s of deca/week with 25-35 mg’s of dbol/day for around 4 weeks, then employ your antiestrogens and HPTA stimulating drugs in order to prevent being shut down to a great degree and hopefully helping keep the post cycle losses to a minimum. Again bro, keep all the issues in mind. you will grow off of lower dosages, the key is to start low and simple and then after each cycle you do, evaluate your progress and then make changes accordingly in your next cycles. for every action in your body there is another reaction, so remember this and always think ahead and plan every detail from the start. if you think i’m full or crap then so be it, but if you want to make quality gains and remain in good health for the long haul then you can pm me and i’ll try and help you get there, while reaping all of the benefits you’re after now. be smart bro and do some more research. hope i helped

Yo G,

It’s nice to see that you’ve finally decided to do a cycle. I know you always have your training on, but make sure you’re eating enough!! I’m talkin about every 3 hours, 30-40 g of protein per meal. I’m not there to keep your ass in check so you better not let me down. I know you’re intelligent and I KNOW you know that gear increases protein synthesis, etc, etc… so EAT! Don’t bother listening to the guy talkin about 800 mg. It’s your first cycle so be conservative until you know how your body responds. If you think you can handle it, you can jump it up to maybe 600 mg Test after a couple weeks. You would do good to keep Deca around 100-150 mg every four days. Likely you’ll want your dosing to look like a pyramid, start slow, add a little if your body can handle it, taper off, hit PCT hard. What are you going to do for PCT? Make sure you HAVE all your PCT before you start the cycle. BTW, can you get your hands on some d-bols? If so you might take about 30 mg ED for the first 3 weeks to give it a jump start.

Incidentally, have you thought about stacking Test with Tren/Fina? You might like it even better than Test & Deca.

Hit me up again on PM, or send an e-mail. Good luck Bro.

800mgs a week is a moderate dose, not high. And for an eight week cyle with proper anti-e protocol any side effects will be temporary ie…acne, nut shrinkage, etc…

Chuck, 250mgs a week would be just a little more than a replacement dose that doctors prescribe to men with low T. He would not only suppress his natural T with that dose but wouldn’t likely see great results with it either. And Test is almost always good in any stack.

If you really want to grow you will likely need at least 500mgs of gear a week, whatever you decide to go with. That is unless you just want to gain a couple pounds and you may be able to get by with less.

I disagree with much of the advice given, so I will give a bit more than my first post. Get an ant-E, I like femera. Do not use deca. I like deca, but I think it should only be used on a long cycle, not an 8 week cycle. More like a cycle that will last a few months in preperation for a show. Keep this cycle simple. Any type of test for 8 weeks at 750mg/week. You can add some dbol for the first few weeks till your test kicks in (if using anything but prop). Also frontload your test, say 1500mg week one, then 750mg/week. If using a long acting ester, switch to prop on week 6 so your recovery isnt prologned. Get some hcg to use during cycle and clomid to use post cycle.

JT is right. The halflife of the Decanoate ester is just to long to bother with on a shorter cycle. It will just muck up your pct. Put it this way, even if you frontloaded all your deca in the first week or two, you would still have enough left after eight weeks in your body to fowl up you pct. If you can get some nandrolone phenlypropinate thats a better choice. Odds are not though so I recommend the test and dbol, or test tren and dbol, as a better option. Short cycles require shorter acting esters and orals. here are some to avoid:

Sustenon (anything with the decanoate ester)

Equipoise (the undecylinate ester is also a very long acting ester)

Nandrolone decanoate (of course)

This leaves you with a heck of a lot of other class 1 and class 2 steroids to choice from! common folks! its not that hard!

Replacement therapy usually only gives about 250 mg’s of test or whatever the choice may be based on the individual every two weeks. i know from having talked with one of the top respected endocrinologists in the Raleigh/Durahm/Chapel Hill area that works for Duke Hospital. If you do research you’ll see how much you produce each week which is usually around 28 to 70mg/week (4 to 10mg/day) and not even all of this is free or unbound test that is usuable or has any effect. By keeping the dosage low in the 4 week cycles that I recommended you can probably prevent much of the shutdown of the HPTA. Research has shown that dosages of Deca Durabolin lower than 400 mg’s/week usually cause about 28% decrease in leutenizing hormone after 21 days and only 33% after 28 days. So although it wouldn’t be correct to say that it does not shut down the HPTA, it would be easier and faster to rebound once the cycle is ended with short cycles of around 4 weeks that minimized endogenous shutdown, which would make for better kept gains after the cycle is over. Another added benefit of keeping the dosage just above what the body naturally produces is that it keeps you growing with plenty of wiggle room left to adjust dosages for future cycles or to add in new drugs. Another benefit of starting with deca or something milder than test on the first couple of cycles would be that the side effects would be minimized as long as PCT and anti-estrogens and maybe even dopamine agonists if prolactin gets out of control, are still administered when/and if needed. One more pro for administering short protocols and changing drugs often is the ability to get back on a cycle quicker and constantly keep the body willing to change. If you think about why most people like longer cycles, it’s usually because they feel like they’re on longer during the year and don’t have to deal with the oh so dreaded off periods where strength is down and weights (scale and gym) start to drop off, plus the longer you stay on a cycle the faster you see the total accumulation of the lean tissue gained and fat lost, etc. There is a limit to how much and how fast one can grow during a period of time, and just because you stay on longer doesn’t mean that you increase or speed up either one of these limiting factors. It simply means that you see the added benefit faster, but what good is that extra 4 to 7 pounds if some is water from increased estrogen production and will be lost once the cycle is discontinued or the anti-estorgens are administered, or if you will lose twice as much lean tissue after you discontiue your gear and begin PCT after an 8 week cycle opposed to a 4 week cycle and now you are shut down further and have to take longer to restore your HPTA. And the last thing i want to comment on is the so called “tapering off” period. this is total crap and the only benefit you may encounter from this method is psychological rather than physiological. If you’re happier decreasing your dosages over the course of a couple weeks at the end which really limits the time you’re on full throttle, because you don’t suffer from depression because you had to quit cold turkey then by all means lower your dosages and your total androgen count for a couple of weeks before you totally discontinue and begin HPTA regeneration. But remember tapering down your exogenous source does not mean that your endogenous source will begin to taper or pyramid back up, there has to be a lack of androgen sensed in the blood before the HPTA will begin to signal it’s little helpers and get you going again.

Beerbarbq, i also think that test is good in any stack/cycle as i and most everyone know that test is king. And as a result of this leave it alone for the first couple of cycles and bring it in when you start to stall with other milder androgenics/anabolics. I think some of the cycles presented to him are well laid out and make sense on paper but in reality the lower dosages and milder drugs, ie higher anabolic to androgenic ratio, used in shorter protocols with less shut down will present him with very good gains once he finds the lowest possible dosage that he grows on and continues to change up the drugs and administer ancillaries when needed or required. but most importantly keeping the cycles shorter and the side effects minimized will keep building a healthy body. not to say that some people can go on long cycles with high dosages and still be healthy and recover post cycle faster, but for most individuals health is most important and then come more muscle, etc. that is why most people administer all the different ancillaries during and after isn’t it? i’m not saying that yours or any one else’s recommendations aren’t well thought out or won’t offer great results, because they have been for years, but don’t continue to do the same things over and over again just because that’s what people have been doing forever. if everyone did this, there would be no changes in the sport and everyone will continue to look the same year after year. I’ll guarantee you that ronnie didn’t just start training and eating better in 2002 in preparation for the 2003 O’, he most likely got hold of some new information regarding drug usage and putting together new protocols and new administration procedures, etc. just think how many people jump into high dosages of steroid use in the first couple of cycles because they grow and want to grow faster, but then after maybe a year or two of usage they stall again and must now start using insane dosages and more and more exotic drugs, etc. to keep making gains. but what if they started out low and keep going just above what the body needed to maintain and kept growing on lower dosages with less money invested and the possibility for less side effects, blah blah blah. just think about it, then re-evaluate your own successes(not just you beerbarbq, but everyone who follows cycles that others have followed in the past over and over again) with steroid usage. i’m not trying to step on any toes or refute anyone’s ideas, but just offer up new(er) information than what most currently are aware of.