T Nation

First cycle

Stats: 6’ 225lbs 15%bf
Couple years off of lifting; back on hardcore for couple years now

Cycle Plan:
Weeks 1 - 3 Test Prop 350mg/week(50mg ED)
Weeks 1 - 12 Test Enan 500mg/week (250x2)
Weeks 1 - 12 EQ 600mg/week (300x2)
Weeks 13 - 16 Test Prop 350mg/week(50mg ED)

PCT: (2 days after last prop)
Nolva 40mg/day days 1-14
Nova 20mg/day days 14-28

Throughout the cycle I will run HCG 500iu/week (250x2). I have femara on hand for bloat, but will wait to see if I need it.

What do you guys think? I do not want to run a shorter cycle. May even switch to maintenance, then go right back in for another cycle. I want to take this all the way, possibly competitive if my body responds well.

Training is dialed in; diet is up to 5000cal/day and climbing.

For weeks 1-3, you’re running 850mg of test (which is good). Then for weeks 4-12 you are running enanthate only, which is dropping your intake to 500mg per week. Either up your enanthate to reach 850mg per week, or run your prop all the way through. Personally, 500mg of test per week is peanuts to me. I would also consider a frontload.

I’d scratch the prop at week 13. I think you’re spending too much time on test. Your recovery is going to take longer and be that much more difficult. I even think the 12 weeks is too long.

Overall, drop your cycle down to 8 to 10 weeks tops, and up your test to 850-1000mg per week throughout. Good luck.

The week 1-3 prop is just to kick start while serum levels from the enanthate come into line. Using the short ester at the end allows a more precise transition into PCT as the long ester induced levels will have come back down by then. 2 days post cycle the prop will already be on its way out and PCT begins.

As far as cycle length and recovery, I can only go by the research I have done. Does anyone have any clinical data regarding HPTA shutdown that supports the “short cycle” = “less recovery” theory? Once your shutdown, your shutdown. With maintenance HCG, testicular mass will be maintained throughout allowing slightly quicker return of endogenous T. Femara/letro will increase igf levels about 24% so that?s a huge benefit when used throughout the cycle as well.

Personally, I prefer the use of propionate toward to end of my cycle, simply because it helps me recover fast.
I don’t like the structure of your cycle. I think testosterone enanthate hould be used at 750 per week(m/w/f)and a good frontload would take away the need to use propionate as you described. More than ten weeks on a cycle seems a bit long if your goals do not include competition. Side effects result from wrong use of anabolics for long periods of time.

You need to specify exactly what your plan is: are you comming off after this cycle is finished or maintaining? Its hard to help unless I know this.

first off never mind about the test, others have dealt with that, my question is what the hell is going on with your equipoise?

your doing 300mg per week without a front all the way to week 12? Did you know that equipoise has as long as a 15-16 day halflife? That’s a long f’n time! That means if you cycle it to the 12th week, you still will not be able to begin your recovery protocol a month later! - If you are planning a maintanace cycle after, this isn’t the end of the world but if you are wanting to recover, you best get all your equipoise in by week 4! I advise that you begin your cycle planning again from scratch. You should front your enantate, and equipoise, propinate you could use the last two weeks of your cycle.

Thanks for the replies so far. P22, I’m running 600mg of EQ not 300 so does that make more sense? I felt that would give me really hard gains while also increasing collagen synthesis to benefit tendons and ligs. I can already tell that I will probably continue cycling aggressively to see if I’m competitive material. So a maintenance cycle is a definite possibility.

You’ve got some interesting advice that goes in the face of all I’ve read. But I would definitely value your opinion. Everyone else is so dam conservative, telling me to do a tiny dose of test for my first cycle. I want to get huge. I mean fvcking HUGE! I have the discipline to eat, train and rest as much as needed. I don’t want to just pile AAS on to get big, but I want the best possible gains in a reasonable amount of time. I have access to almost anything I could possibly need so hit me with some advice. My prop is kicking in sweet and I can adjust my enanth/EQ loads. I was also looking into dbol but thought it a bit much. Your thoughts?

Looks like I screwed up on your eq dosages…sorry for the rant :] I’ll have more to say tommorrow…(its late)

Cool bro, looking forward to your advice.

there is no “clinical data” to support most of the knowledge we have gained about AAS over the years, generally speaking. we are the pioneers, as the BB’ers, and powerlifters over the last few decades have been. point being i wouldnt simply look for clinical data for all the answers. i agree, 16 weeks is too long to be on and still expect a reasonable rate of recovery. true, a few cycles like this may not be a problem. but, it will take its toll in the long run. most here will suggest 8 weekers. i stay on as long as 10 weeks. the cycle i am on now is 10 weeks and it includes EQ as well. my advice would be to restructure as follows. frontload enanthate at 1.4g week 1. run it at 700mgs weeks 2-8. run prop weeks 9 and 10 at 100mgs/ed. frontload the EQ at 1.2g week 1. run it at 600mgs weeks 2-10. honestly, with you could even just run the enanthate all the way through as the EQ will keep you suppressed through about week 12 or 13 anyways. save the prop for a cutter. dont forget anti-e’s throughout. and i like the hcg you placed throughout as well.

Drago1 advise is fairly good exept for the equipoise. Unfortunately its halflife is as long as- 16.5 days.
I calculated your 8 weeks of eq at 600mg per week, and it took 16 weeks to be completely out of your system. 8 weeks and it is down to about 150 mg - where you could begin a recovery protocol. Equipoise I feel is just not suited for short cycles. The only way I see that you can work it is to take all your eq in the first 4 weeks of your cycle at 1000+ mg per week. Stay on the enantate untill week 12 and by the time the enantate ester falls off the equipoise ester should have fallen sufficiently to begin recovery. Don’t worry about the prop either on this cycle. Your biggest concern I feel if you are coming off would be that your blood levels of eq are down low enough to be successful at a recovery protocol - because if they aren’t, you are just waisting clomid and nolvadex or whatever else you would use - P-22

OK, I understand what your saying, I think. So the EQ is going to keep me shutdown for a long time and disperse at a slower rate than the enanthate. Looks like enanthate half-life is about 11 days if I have the right data. And using the prop at the end really does little good as the levels of EQ would still be too high. So I’d be shutdown, but my T levels would be falling.

Couple questions. Is 1g+ of EQ a week safe for a first cycle? I would have said no but what are your thoughts? Running this much aromatizable gear, should I run the letro immediately? I was going to start at 1.5mg E3D, then go to EOD if need be. I want to give letro a try for the igf benefits it may provide.

The half life of enantate ranges from 6- 10 days depending on who you get your info from and also depended on your own metabolism. As far as the eq goes I recomended 1000+mg per week for 4 weeks. I hope your eq is in concentration of 200mg/ml because if its in 50mg/ml your gonna be hurting.
You may be injecting 4 grams of eq in 4 weeks but you have to understand that this drug as you put it; ‘disperses’ so slowly that you would not be absorbing at any time 1000mg per week. Instead the 4000 mg would slowly be used in your system for the entire 12 week cycle. - All be it your doses for the 3 and 4 week would be a bit high, they are no more higher than doing the 600mg for 8 weeks. they would fall off in weeks 5,6,7,8,9,10 to comfortable levels.
Training with a gram + isn’t a big deal, I routinely use this much at least, if not more, and used a gram a week for my first cycle. - Just think of it this way: if you have a headache and you have to take an extra stength tylenol, thats 600+ mg. If you take more than one per day or week you have already used a gram of tylenol in a week - and tylenol is much more toxic to the body than steroids.

You have the right idea with the Letrozole but also keep nolva on hand as well. An HCG protocol is a good idea as well. I

Cool, thanks bro! Let me digest that for a bit and I’ll restructure :slight_smile: