T Nation

First Cycle


#21

[quote]daveness371 wrote:
Why don’t you try doing this for your 1st cycle…NOTHING. You’re 24 years old and risking damaging your endocrine system permanently. You’ll possibly end up being one of those guys in here who’s 30 years old and seeing an endocrinologist when your body can’t produce testosterone anymore. Is that what you want? At 24 yo, you can put on plenty of muscle with your natural levels.[/quote]

I was put on TRT legally at 19 years old because my levels came back at barely 255ng… You wanna tell me just because I was 19 my levels were optimal. he is 24 a grown man and in a few years very possible he would could be put on TRT any way whether he juices or not. With that being said he could fucking fall off a cliff or what ever they have over there and die to day so why not feel amazing and make the gains he wants. If he was 16 Id agree with most of your statement but, it was rather pretty empty statement for this situation.


#22

Lmao “REED” i genuinely laughed reading that about the cliffs lol , i live in a city actually but anyway…yeah bro im with you on that one , actually ordered the above cycle today , waiting for western union to accept payment. Kind of shitting it lol 1st time iv done that i hope that it all goes well…!


#23

What like mate? What’s the craic? I’m from Invershnecky too! Haha. Not telling you where in case you know me though!

From one teuchter to another: enjoy your cycle man. Take your ancillaries, PCT properly and have a blast. You’ll love it.


#24

No way “YOGI” small world ae?! Yeah im excited and bit nervous (in a good way) just hope it arrives!! Gonna go hard as f**k in the gym as of the 5th lol


#25

[quote]scottish muscle wrote:
No way “YOGI” small world ae?! Yeah im excited and bit nervous (in a good way) just hope it arrives!! Gonna go hard as f**k in the gym as of the 5th lol[/quote]

I know eh? Haven’t lived in the highlands for over a decade now but still go back to visit friends/family every now and then.

If you used a reputable, domestic source then you’ll be alright. It’s rare for shit not to arrive; I’ve certainly never had a problem.

If you want any help with your diet or training or whatever then ask away and I’ll be happy to help.


#26

What are the chances YOGI ,.small world. Aww no dont say that lol , its an international order :0! Wide range? i ordered the beginners bulk cycle , i heard only good reviews after doing a good bit of research so fingers crossed. Cost me £200 in total!


#27

And thanks for your offer of help and advice bro , myt just take you up on that.


#28

Alright “YOGI” , no its international but reviews are good. Fingers crossed lol.

Thanks man thats appreciated bro. Happy New Year btw. I am soooo ruff today haha.

Still unsure as to run the test solo for 1st cycle to see how i react or be greedy and do the dbol aswell. Decisions Decisions…


#29

As someone who has most likely always been low t - even as a young man - I must say that the idea of a 24 year old with 4 years under his belt of lifting going on cycle without more info is concerning.

Mind you at 48 I cycle 3 times a year now - I’m on TRT and have been for 2 years. Why not get a male hormone panel done before you get started to have some beginning values? At 24 I would think you’d be up in the 600-800 on T specifically if you have the muscle mass that comes from lifting for 4 years.

Just my $.02 dude.

p.s. there used to be a time when the gray beards on this forum used to strongly advise young guys like you to stay away from AAS till your 30’s and more years of lifting. But ya gunna do what ya gunna do, so at least get your levels checked before you start off. It is impossible to reason from insufficient data.


#30

[quote]threepercenter wrote:
As someone who has most likely always been low t - even as a young man - I must say that the idea of a 24 year old with 4 years under his belt of lifting going on cycle without more info is concerning.

Mind you at 48 I cycle 3 times a year now - I’m on TRT and have been for 2 years. Why not get a male hormone panel done before you get started to have some beginning values? At 24 I would think you’d be up in the 600-800 on T specifically if you have the muscle mass that comes from lifting for 4 years.

Just my $.02 dude.

p.s. there used to be a time when the gray beards on this forum used to strongly advise young guys like you to stay away from AAS till your 30’s and more years of lifting. But ya gunna do what ya gunna do, so at least get your levels checked before you start off. It is impossible to reason from insufficient data.[/quote]

I agree I think everyone should get bloodwork.

Sad part is more and more younger guys are coming on here with clearly should not be messin around with gear, some get told not to do it, but in most cases they are already going to do it regardless of what anyone says so might as well help them.

People are just getting lazier these days and want everything right now without putting in work.


#31

[quote]scottish muscle wrote:
Alright “YOGI” , no its international but reviews are good. Fingers crossed lol.

Thanks man thats appreciated bro. Happy New Year btw. I am soooo ruff today haha.

Still unsure as to run the test solo for 1st cycle to see how i react or be greedy and do the dbol aswell. Decisions Decisions…[/quote]

do the dbol man, it’ll get you gaining right out the gate and that’s very motivating


#32

Cycle does look good, but I tend to disagree when people say you NEED to use arimidex or another AI. It is definitely a good thing to have on hand. But, its not always needed and in some cases can work against you. If you’re gonna use the dbol, you’ll most likely end up needing the AI, but if you use Testosterone alone you may not. If it’s your first cycle, why not try using test on its own. The results will be more than satisfactory.

On my 2nd cycle, I bumped the Test E up to 750mg/week and after 2 weeks had slight gyno forming. I reduced test to 625mg/week and used 0.25mg adex EOD and the gyno disappeared in under a week. 500-625mg/week and no AI needed for me.

At the beginning of my current cycle I started 0.25mg adex EOD while using 500mg/week of test. Felt lethargic, no sex drive, sore joints and no real strength. Dropped it for 2 weeks and tried to use it again. Immediately felt like shit. Dropped it completely and symptoms went away. I’ll definitely never use an AI again unless high estrogen symptoms start appearing. And I have a close friend that is the exact same.

My advice is start without and see what happens. Have it if you need it. Same with letro


#33

DO NOT START YOUR CYCLE WITHOUT YOUR AI.

DO NOT LISTEN TO THE ABOVE POST.

Seriously, we get about a thousand threads a week on here by people who didn’t control their E on cycle.

Can you say impotence? Because you will. To us. In a thread where you tell us you didn’t control your E and now you’re impotent.


#34

[quote]TheTaskmaster wrote:
Cycle does look good, but I tend to disagree when people say you NEED to use arimidex or another AI. It is definitely a good thing to have on hand. But, its not always needed and in some cases can work against you. If you’re gonna use the dbol, you’ll most likely end up needing the AI, but if you use Testosterone alone you may not. If it’s your first cycle, why not try using test on its own. The results will be more than satisfactory.

On my 2nd cycle, I bumped the Test E up to 750mg/week and after 2 weeks had slight gyno forming. I reduced test to 625mg/week and used 0.25mg adex EOD and the gyno disappeared in under a week. 500-625mg/week and no AI needed for me.

At the beginning of my current cycle I started 0.25mg adex EOD while using 500mg/week of test. Felt lethargic, no sex drive, sore joints and no real strength. Dropped it for 2 weeks and tried to use it again. Immediately felt like shit. Dropped it completely and symptoms went away. I’ll definitely never use an AI again unless high estrogen symptoms start appearing. And I have a close friend that is the exact same.

My advice is start without and see what happens. Have it if you need it. Same with letro[/quote]

I strongly disagree with your advice.

There are other problems caused by high E2 that aren’t seen that are worse then puffy nipples. Some people need an AI, some people don’t. Best thing to do is start with a low dose then get bloodwork mid cycle and see where your estrogen lies, then adjust accordingly. Further bloodwork done after adjusting the initial dose can be even better.

Telling someone not to use one just because YOU THINK you don’t need one is stupid.


#35

I can see both points here boys , yes i would like to not have to run the adex as we all know some estro is good for health/cycle-effectivness/ mood etc. BUT like your man said there a lot of unseen factors concerning high estro that you do not see. And i am led to believe that the adex has a negative impact on LDL Cholesterol but i dont want a big juicy pair of f**king tits lol. Have atleast 3 weeks before cycle starts anyway so plenty time to decide and put in further research.


#36

[quote]scottish muscle wrote:
I can see both points here boys , yes i would like to not have to run the adex as we all know some estro is good for health/cycle-effectivness/ mood etc. BUT like your man said there a lot of unseen factors concerning high estro that you do not see. And i am led to believe that the adex has a negative impact on LDL Cholesterol but i dont want a big juicy pair of f**king tits lol. Have atleast 3 weeks before cycle starts anyway so plenty time to decide and put in further research. [/quote]

seriously dude, there is SO MUCh more to high E than just gyno. Don’t cycle without an AI.

If you do, and then come back on here in 12 weeks saying you have no libido, we’ll all know why.


#37

I am not going to , aas is enough of a risk as it is no need to complicate it by taking unnecessary risks. I Have 40 1mg Adex tabs coming with my test , nolva and dbol.


#38

[quote]scottish muscle wrote:
I am not going to , aas is enough of a risk as it is no need to complicate it by taking unnecessary risks. I Have 40 1mg Adex tabs coming with my test , nolva and dbol. [/quote]

good lad


#39

Realistically how many people actually get bloodwork done throughout a cycle? Not many. Unless you can be open with your doctor, paying for that regular bloodwork would just be too expensive. A good balance between testosterone and estrogen levels are just as important as high testosterone. AI’s are important and should definitely be on hand.

But not everyone is highly prone to aromatization, and you won’t know this if you start using an AI from day 1 of your first cycle. 500mg of testosterone really isn’t all that high and you may stand to benefit from a slight increase in estrogen. Your body thrives from that balance. Adding dbol to his cycle will most likely guarantee that AI will be needed since it has a high chance of being aromatized.

For myself personally, and I’d assume most of the guys here, we’re in it for the long haul. Not a brief moment of getting big and then that’s it. Why not start simple, see exactly how your body reacts before adding other drugs in. First cycles are never last cycles. Unless something goes horribly wrong and there are too many factors to determine where the problem originated. Not looking to hate on anyone else advice, just my 0.02

edit- symptoms of high estrogen will not just happen overnight. I gently examine my chest everyday to feel for any possible growth, keep track of my mood, libido, water weight, even testicle size. If I ever feel like estrogen is starting to get high, I will take some adex. But very rare. My diet has plenty of greens and veggies since they act as a natural AI. Do I love eating them? Hell no lol but I’d rather eat a plate of greens each day to keep things in check than be using additional drugs.


#40

[quote]TheTaskmaster wrote:
Realistically how many people actually get bloodwork done throughout a cycle? Not many. Unless you can be open with your doctor, paying for that regular bloodwork would just be too expensive. A good balance between testosterone and estrogen levels are just as important as high testosterone. AI’s are important and should definitely be on hand. But not everyone is highly prone to aromatization, and you won’t know this if you start using an AI from day 1 of your first cycle. 500mg of testosterone really isn’t all that high and you may stand to benefit from a slight increase in estrogen. Your body thrives from that balance. Adding dbol to his cycle will most likely guarantee that AI will be needed since it has a high chance of being aromatized. For myself personally, and I’d assume most of the guys here, we’re in it for the long haul. Not a brief moment of getting big and then that’s it. Why not start simple, see exactly how your body reacts before adding other drugs in. First cycles are never last cycles. Unless something goes horribly wrong and there are too many factors to determine where the problem originated. Not looking to hate on anyone else advice, just my 0.02

edit- symptoms of high estrogen will not just happen overnight. I gently examine my chest everyday to feel for any possible growth, keep track of my mood, libido, water weight, even testicle size. If I ever feel like estrogen is starting to get high, I will take some adex. But very rare. My diet has plenty of greens and veggies since they act as a natural AI. Do I love eating them? Hell no lol but I’d rather eat a plate of greens each day to keep things in check than be using additional drugs.

[/quote]

There are ways to get bloodwork without your doc ever knowing.

Privatemdlabs is one, cost 50 bucks. It’s worth knowing where you stand hormonal wise if you are gonna be cycle for awhile.

Not everyone needs an AI, like I said before some do, just because you think you don’t, don’t advise someone else they don’t need it.

And really checking your nips everyday? That’s not a sure sign of high estrogen, there are other problems associated with high e2 that can’t be seen.