T Nation

First Cycle

stats: 20 years old, 6’0’’ 200 lbs 10% bf - good diet and excellent training routine

500mg/week test e for 10 weeks
arimidex .25mg EOD weeks 1-10
PCT: nolva 40/40/20/20 start 14 days after last shot. clomid? arimidex?

yeah I know 20 is not advisable to start AAS and I can naturally put on 30+ more lbs but it is what I want to do, no need to tell me im too young or not big enough. I know it would be better (more gains) to run my cycle without arimidex but I would rather play it safe and not take the risk of growing bitch tits.

also, im really trying to stick with just test e, arimidex, and nolva since it is only my first cycle. I have all three on hand and can get clomid if need be. I don’t want deca, letro, aromasin, hcg or anything like that for this cycle, just sticking to the bare basics.

questions:
should I start arimidex from week 1 or week 3? seems like everyone is split on this, what are the pros and cons of each?

should I run arimidex with nolva for PCT? or clomid and nolva? or just nolva? or all three? what doses is typical for first time 500mg/week test e cycle?

In advance, thanks for the helpful info guys!!!
Muscle Bound!

you should do what you think is best and/or listen to advice of those who you really trust.

as for my opinion on your questions - i would use AI only when feel the need to. Every drug is a drug and it is not good for you if you dont have a reason to take it, and so is with AI.
i dont understand people who get tons of AI and PCT drugs and write the cycle down on how and when to take them, just cause its a standard protocol.

Im on cutting plan atm, on 850mg of test a week for 4th month now - i still dont have any estrogen sides and not even a testicular athrophy. I have a pack of proviron just in case, yet i have never had a need to actually use it(althou i will take it on the last week of the cycle anyway, cause i dont normally do such long cycles).

what im trying to say is - just as much as you should try getting most results of lowest doses of steroids at start, you shouldnt take all the extra drugs just cause your cycle protocol says so.
you might not need the AI on cycle ever, and you might need it at second week already. Have it on hand just in case and listen to your body.

[quote]Semigall wrote:
you should do what you think is best and/or listen to advice of those who you really trust.

as for my opinion on your questions - i would use AI only when feel the need to. Every drug is a drug and it is not good for you if you dont have a reason to take it, and so is with AI.
i dont understand people who get tons of AI and PCT drugs and write the cycle down on how and when to take them, just cause its a standard protocol.
Im on cutting plan atm, on 850mg of test a week for 4th month now - i still dont have any estrogen sides and not even a testicular athrophy. I have a pack of proviron just in case, yet i have never had a need to actually use it(althou i will take it on the last week of the cycle anyway, cause i dont normally do such long cycles).

what im trying to say is - just as much as you should try getting most results of lowest doses of steroids at start, you shouldnt take all the extra drugs just cause your cycle protocol says so.
you might not need the AI on cycle ever, and you might need it at second week already. Have it on hand just in case and listen to your body.[/quote]

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DON’T KNOW SHIT

[quote]DACistheman wrote:
stats: 20 years old, 6’0’’ 200 lbs 10% bf - good diet and excellent training routine

500mg/week test e for 10 weeks
arimidex .25mg EOD weeks 1-10
PCT: nolva 40/40/20/20 start 14 days after last shot. clomid? arimidex?

yeah I know 20 is not advisable to start AAS and I can naturally put on 30+ more lbs but it is what I want to do, no need to tell me im too young or not big enough. I know it would be better (more gains) to run my cycle without arimidex but I would rather play it safe and not take the risk of growing bitch tits.

also, im really trying to stick with just test e, arimidex, and nolva since it is only my first cycle. I have all three on hand and can get clomid if need be. I don’t want deca, letro, aromasin, hcg or anything like that for this cycle, just sticking to the bare basics.

questions:
should I start arimidex from week 1 or week 3? seems like everyone is split on this, what are the pros and cons of each?

should I run arimidex with nolva for PCT? or clomid and nolva? or just nolva? or all three? what doses is typical for first time 500mg/week test e cycle?

In advance, thanks for the helpful info guys!!!
Muscle Bound![/quote]

your cycle looks fine, I would run adex .5mg EOD

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Semigall wrote:
you should do what you think is best and/or listen to advice of those who you really trust.

as for my opinion on your questions - i would use AI only when feel the need to. Every drug is a drug and it is not good for you if you dont have a reason to take it, and so is with AI.
i dont understand people who get tons of AI and PCT drugs and write the cycle down on how and when to take them, just cause its a standard protocol.
Im on cutting plan atm, on 850mg of test a week for 4th month now - i still dont have any estrogen sides and not even a testicular athrophy. I have a pack of proviron just in case, yet i have never had a need to actually use it(althou i will take it on the last week of the cycle anyway, cause i dont normally do such long cycles).

what im trying to say is - just as much as you should try getting most results of lowest doses of steroids at start, you shouldnt take all the extra drugs just cause your cycle protocol says so.
you might not need the AI on cycle ever, and you might need it at second week already. Have it on hand just in case and listen to your body.[/quote]

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DON’T KNOW SHIT[/quote]

Lower your test dude, you are going to kill somebody.

apologies, it just blows my mind… the idiocy of someone saying “I don’t run an AI… I don’t get estrogen side effects even at 1g test”

fucking unbelievable

at 850mg of test with no ai, i would imagine his estrogen is over 2000 ng/dl. yeah real safe. gyno is the least of his problems. I really dont know why people think gyno is the only reason to keep estrogen in check.

[quote]patrick4588 wrote:
at 850mg of test with no ai, i would imagine his estrogen is over 2000 ng/dl. yeah real safe. gyno is the least of his problems. I really dont know why people think gyno is the only reason to keep estrogen in check. [/quote]

exactly

it gets WAY worse… even life-threatening

Mr. Walkaway is it safe to run 600mg of test a week for 16 weeks or more? I Ran for 12 last summer and had very good results. just wasn’t sure how safe it is for that long, Adex .50 eod,

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Semigall wrote:
you should do what you think is best and/or listen to advice of those who you really trust.

as for my opinion on your questions - i would use AI only when feel the need to. Every drug is a drug and it is not good for you if you dont have a reason to take it, and so is with AI.
i dont understand people who get tons of AI and PCT drugs and write the cycle down on how and when to take them, just cause its a standard protocol.
Im on cutting plan atm, on 850mg of test a week for 4th month now - i still dont have any estrogen sides and not even a testicular athrophy. I have a pack of proviron just in case, yet i have never had a need to actually use it(althou i will take it on the last week of the cycle anyway, cause i dont normally do such long cycles).

what im trying to say is - just as much as you should try getting most results of lowest doses of steroids at start, you shouldnt take all the extra drugs just cause your cycle protocol says so.
you might not need the AI on cycle ever, and you might need it at second week already. Have it on hand just in case and listen to your body.[/quote]

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DON’T KNOW SHIT[/quote]

HAHAHA I saw that coming from a mile and a half away

[quote]fdiaz13 wrote:
Mr. Walkaway is it safe to run 600mg of test a week for 16 weeks or more? I Ran for 12 last summer and had very good results. just wasn’t sure how safe it is for that long, Adex .50 eod,[/quote]

it should be yes… keep a close eye on your blood pressure

[quote]Reed wrote:

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]Semigall wrote:
you should do what you think is best and/or listen to advice of those who you really trust.

as for my opinion on your questions - i would use AI only when feel the need to. Every drug is a drug and it is not good for you if you dont have a reason to take it, and so is with AI.
i dont understand people who get tons of AI and PCT drugs and write the cycle down on how and when to take them, just cause its a standard protocol.
Im on cutting plan atm, on 850mg of test a week for 4th month now - i still dont have any estrogen sides and not even a testicular athrophy. I have a pack of proviron just in case, yet i have never had a need to actually use it(althou i will take it on the last week of the cycle anyway, cause i dont normally do such long cycles).

what im trying to say is - just as much as you should try getting most results of lowest doses of steroids at start, you shouldnt take all the extra drugs just cause your cycle protocol says so.
you might not need the AI on cycle ever, and you might need it at second week already. Have it on hand just in case and listen to your body.[/quote]

SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU DON’T KNOW SHIT[/quote]

HAHAHA I saw that coming from a mile and a half away[/quote]

As well it should have. In fact I’m not sure he said it emphatically enough. These people need to be shut down as quickly as possoble.

OP, run an AI it has a lot more benefits then controlling gyno. High estrogen isn’t good and you may not even know it.

Nolva and clomid are both fine for pct, you can use both or one. I would also taper off the SERM after the 4 weeks as well.

I would also run a low dose AI throughout pct as well, tapering it off with the SERM taper.

@BUDs, thanks for the info. I would imagine using both is better or is it just personal preference? If its just personal preference ill just stick with nolva and see how I like it. So for my PCT you recommend tapering off something like 40/40/20/20/10/5? and adding a low dose of adex throughout my PCT like .25mg E3d? i thought adex with PCT is a bad idea because it keeps your e levels too low so id definitely want to keep it at a low dose

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

[quote]fdiaz13 wrote:
Mr. Walkaway is it safe to run 600mg of test a week for 16 weeks or more? I Ran for 12 last summer and had very good results. just wasn’t sure how safe it is for that long, Adex .50 eod,[/quote]

it should be yes… keep a close eye on your blood pressure[/quote]

perfect, its always around 120/82.
niacin
fish oil
flax seed
liver 52
I assume these are helping keeping it stable

[quote]DACistheman wrote:
stats: 20 years old, 6’0’’ 200 lbs 10% bf - good diet and excellent training routine

500mg/week test e for 10 weeks
arimidex .25mg EOD weeks 1-10
PCT: nolva 40/40/20/20 start 14 days after last shot. clomid? arimidex?

Muscle Bound![/quote]

at that dosage i started getting itchy nipples into my third week and decided to run 0.25 mg eod from then on fr my future cycles…

when i got itchy nipples i immediately started nolva 20/20/20/10 for four days and started arimidex at 0.5 mg eod for 2 “days” and then went on to maintain it at 0.25 mg EoD…

so my suggestion would be to start off with no ai since its your very first cycle and see where you go… if too much bloat, or itchy nipples try to do what i stated above and start at 0.25 mg eod from day one of your next cycle…

and regarding your age your too young for aas atleast wait out another year or two cause your still growing and have a lot of hormones fluctuating, and playing with aas could make things worse… anyways in the end its your decision…

and something no one suggested, ffs include dbol at 20 or 30 mg for 4-5 weeks you will gain slightly more muscle mass than test e alone…

if you dont add dbol , dont expect strength to go up immediately from test e alone… for me it took 5 weeks for it to kick in and teh first 5 weeks were depressing cause i dint feel on roids and just looked fat… i dint even feel like eating mad (but i did) cause i just dint feel like on roids… dont forget liver supps !

oh and wtf how could you forget hcg ? since your somewhat close to ur natty limit your body will tend to lose quite a lot… so try to restart ur HPTA immediately with hcg

[quote]DACistheman wrote:
@BUDs, thanks for the info. I would imagine using both is better or is it just personal preference? If its just personal preference ill just stick with nolva and see how I like it. So for my PCT you recommend tapering off something like 40/40/20/20/10/5? and adding a low dose of adex throughout my PCT like .25mg E3d? i thought adex with PCT is a bad idea because it keeps your e levels too low so id definitely want to keep it at a low dose[/quote]

It’s mostly preference yes. I feel I recover better using both. So you can try one, then next time try the other or both and see what you like.

That taper looks good. For the adex I would run .25mb EOD the first week then .125mg EOD for the next 3 weeks, then half of that for week, then half of that the next.

[quote]G0D123 wrote:

[quote]DACistheman wrote:
stats: 20 years old, 6’0’’ 200 lbs 10% bf - good diet and excellent training routine

500mg/week test e for 10 weeks
arimidex .25mg EOD weeks 1-10
PCT: nolva 40/40/20/20 start 14 days after last shot. clomid? arimidex?

Muscle Bound![/quote]

at that dosage i started getting itchy nipples into my third week and decided to run 0.25 mg eod from then on fr my future cycles…

when i got itchy nipples i immediately started nolva 20/20/20/10 for four days and started arimidex at 0.5 mg eod for 2 “days” and then went on to maintain it at 0.25 mg EoD…

so my suggestion would be to start off with no ai since its your very first cycle and see where you go… if too much bloat, or itchy nipples try to do what i stated above and start at 0.25 mg eod from day one of your next cycle…

and regarding your age your too young for aas atleast wait out another year or two cause your still growing and have a lot of hormones fluctuating, and playing with aas could make things worse… anyways in the end its your decision… [/quote]

Again there is no reason why you shouldn’t run an AI. Just because you don’t have itchy nips does not mean your E2 isn’t high. High E2 can cause more problems then itchy nips.