T Nation

First Cycle, Too Much?


#1

Hey guys , in need of some help been advised to do 2ml sus with 2ml deca a week for 10 weeks , has any1 done this cycle and what were your gains? I have pct sorted and have a gym and diet plan in place .


#2

First: You didn’t tell us the concentration of the gear. Deca could be 150, 200, 250, 300 mg/ml. Big difference between the high and low end.

That being said, it’s not a great cycle for a first time. Deca is a poor choice. Just use test. It will be very effective, and will minimize side effects. Deca is VERY suppressive, and is not for a first timer. AT ALL. Running even 1 cycle of deca is something many people regret for a very, very long time. It could literally cause you to lose the ability to have an erection for a year.

Run 2mL of test for 10 weeks, use adex at .25mg every other day. Then run your pct. you said you have your pct sorted (something I HIGHLY doubt), but if you don’t want information in that regard, I won’t give it to you.


#3

For the post cycle I will use tamoxifen or anastrazole , I’ve researched deca a lot and it seems if the sus is taken at a higher dose there isn’t much risk of deca dick, please don’t roast me still learning


#4

You don’t have PCT sorted if you think you can use tamoxifen OR anastrozole. Anastrozole is an aromatase inhibitor. It will prevent the conversion of testosterone to estrogen. It will NOT help you recover your HTPA. Perhaps you should consider learning at least a little more instead of saying ‘you already know what you’re doing.’ You’re really playing with fire right now.

Also, you’re completely wrong about the mitigation of ‘deca dick’ by running test higher. It may help you while ON cycle, but that won’t help once you’ve gone off.

I’m telling you man, don’t run the Deca. It’s your first cycle, why not see how much you can gain off of just test to start? You may be surprised by how awesome it is. I honestly prefer test-only cycles to anything else I’ve tried to this point, aside from throwing in an oral on top. Test and Dbol is my preference.


#5

Ok , I would appreciate any advice for the pct, I can only get sus and deca . So if I just do the sus for my first cycle do you think I would have some nice results?


#6

I feel like I already answered this question. Are you paying attention to what I said? I told you my favorite cycles are test-only. I would run it at 500-750mg/week, for 12 weeks.

Your pct should start 2 weeks after your last injection, and should be nolvadex (tamox) at 20mg for about 4-5 weeks, and then taper the dose down for another week or so.

Use the anastrozole during your cycle, every other day. the dose should be approximately .5mg EOD. It is helpful to get bloodwork to check your E2 level a few weeks after starting, but if you can’t do that, just raise the dose if you see symptoms of high estrogen.


#7

Flip, do you continue running AI through PCT?


#8

I am sensing you don’t really know what Sustanon is, it is in essence just Testosterone. A mix of short and longer esters is all that separates Sust from Test P, E or C. It’s all about half life. Just run Sust or any Test at 500-600 mg/week and you’ll see amazing results.


#9

Deca dick is normally caused by high prolactin levels or increased E2 due to failure to account for the addition of another aromatisable compound and not increasing the dose of the AI. Running higher test(sust) increases E2. More E2 stimulates more prolactin production. Fun times.


#10

Cheese: yes. this is important, to avoid the ‘estrogen rebound’ that can occur in pct. the dose is tapered down, but it still needs to be included for several weeks.


#11

So think I’m going to take the advise given and run just the sus , I don’t want it to complicate thing as its my first cycle


#12

Thank you for your advise


#13

I will be running it through pct this time and maybe slightly longer at a reduced dose. I don’t have any acne normally in general but always start breaking out during pct. I am thinking it is from eostrogen rebound. Hoping running the Adex longer takes care of this. How do you typically do the dosages flip? Let’s say I am on .50 eod. During cycle would I run that dosage until pct start and then taper it down to say .25 eod for the first 4 weeks of pct and then maybe .12 for an additional two weeks?


#14

Leadhead,

I would taper it down to .12 earlier than that. Probably more like a week or 2 into your pct. And then stop it completely by the end of pct.


#15

I’m not into this whole thing of running an AI through PCT.

I tried it last time and it took my E too far down.


#16

It may not be necessary for everyone, but he suggested that he had symptoms of estrogen rebound. I would think in his case an AI through PCT, dosed low, would help.


#17

Yeah I mean I can see the value in it, but I’ll not do it again.

Next PCT I’m just going to go for very low dose aromasin during the first week or so and that’ll be it. I’m definitely not going to run it all the way through or for any amount of time after.

If you control your E on cycle (and taper down your AI if you’re using certain compounds) then I don’t think an extra 6 weeks of AI use is really necessary.


#18

In addition to what @Yogi_ said I also believe that high body fat has also something to do with it. I had observed that most people who get uncontrollable E post steroid therapy are either with high bf% or with impaired endocrine systems. I suppose there are plenty of such cases with lab works in the T replacement forums. Could be why @KSman recommends cruising on low dose adex for a few weeks after SERM restart.
In my case also anastrozole took my E levels way below normal, I speculated it to be that may be I’m an adex over responder but now I think it isn’t that simple.


#19

I typically suggest 0.5mg anastrozole per week in divided doses for post PCT cruise. You need a liquid product to manage such small dosing. You can make up a solution, 1mg/ml with vodka and pills and dispense in drop increments.

If one is an anastrozole over-responder, doing would need to be 1/4th the above suggested amounts.

E2 levels can be higher if liver clearance is impaired. That can be from drugs/meds etc that make demands on the same enzyme pathways that clear estrogens from the blood. Liver can be compromised from some gear. In those cases, the only way to manage things would involve lab work.


#20

Impaired liver is one important piece of this whole puzzle, but sadly lab work is taken into account by only fraction of gear users which leads to different guys speculating different things and whole scenario gets even murkier than before.