First Cycle Thoughts

I’m not a fan of Deca except where someone has found that it solves or helps a joint problem for them. It slows recovery worse than most injectables due to both having a long half life and having progestagenic effect (which is inhibitory.)

Since you are using anti-aromatase anyway, the simplest thing to do would be to increase the T.

Sooo… If I were to increase the test-e to 425mg E3D, would this be considered too much? If I were to do this, I assume I would need to cut back on the duration of the cycle? Also, what would my front load look like for the first 3-4 weeks?

I think this is going to turn out to be quite a good thread just from the responses so far…

[quote]Jakebambeeno wrote:
Sooo… If I were to increase the test-e to 425mg E3D, would this be considered too much? If I were to do this, I assume I would need to cut back on the duration of the cycle? Also, what would my front load look like for the first 3-4 weeks?[/quote]

That’ll give you almost exactly a gram a week (as I am certain you already know) and I would love to see the way this cycle plays out. Never read of a first timer starting with a gram/week, and would love to see what happens. I would assume if you have a good, strong AI you should be good to go. My warning to you would be that you do not yet know the effects of exogenous testosterone upon your body. Your body may break out and resemble the bubbling cheeses and fatty oils of a pepperoni pizza. If you have a propensity toward male pattern baldness, that could be a problem. Less test first time around will give you a chance to chart your territory and see what’s going on. Also, the dbol and test together for a first timer are a powerful combination. My own experience was to gain nearly 30 lbs in under 8 weeks. I know that sounds terrific, but it brings with it its own new set of problems. Also you can keep costs down with less test.

Take in mind I’m not saying you shouldn’t do this much, but you should certainly consider these things. There is nothing wrong with taking things a bit slowly. I won’t argue with the frontload because Bill knows his science way the hell better than I do, but a dbol kick start and a massive front load at the same time…hope your body is ready for that all at once, never having done them. Let me repeat, I am NOT telling you not to do this. I just think you’d better think about everything because this is not a game.

this is definately an interesting thread,and i to am wondering of the potential sides of using a gram a week.The baldness and acne are both troublesome(and i am pre disposed to both) but what about the blood pressure issues?im assuming they will esculate quite rapidly with this cycle,and will they drop off during the taper or stay markedly high?not a critiqqe here just curious

Just a thought here. Why not start low, monitoring sides and if you don’t see the results you seek then up the dose?

why start with 1 gram per week (Strasser’s Gramabol) when you don’t know the reactions you will get from exogenous hormones.

I hope you aren’t fooled into thinking that you will be the only 1 to escape sides. Not being rude, just realistically opening your eyes. All Steroids have side effects, therefore you must be prepared when the surface.

Well, according to Bill (that is, if he is right), using around 1g/week is a reasonable amount and not excessive. I have never had bad acne, but I do get it from time to time (mild… if that).

I am concerned with the hair loss side effect, but I will take my chances with that. Since this plan will only be a little over a few months, I will stick it out (not including PCT). I have reworked my plan. Here it is.

Cycle
Week 1-9___Test-E______425mgE3D (every 3rd day)
Week 1-4____Dbol________40mgED (10mg 4XD)
Week 1-9___A-dex_______0.25mgED

PCT(weeks 10 on up, but starting at 1 for convenience)
Weeks 1-5____Test-E____100mgED
Weeks 6-9___Test-E____(taperEW) 80, 60, 40, 20 (mgs)
A-dex on hand if needed (if I need it I will take 0.25mgE5D)

[quote]Jakebambeeno wrote:
Well, according to Bill (that is, if he is right), using around 1g/week is a reasonable amount and not excessive. I have never had bad acne, but I do get it from time to time (mild… if that).

I am concerned with the hair loss side effect, but I will take my chances with that. Since this plan will only be a little over a few months, I will stick it out. I have reworked my plan. Here it is.

Cycle
Week 1-9___Test-E______425mgE3D (every 3rd day)
Week 1-4____Dbol________40mgED (10mg 4XD)
Week 1-9___A-dex_______0.25mgED

PCT(weeks 10 on up, but starting at 1 for convenience)
Weeks 1-5____Test-E____100mgED
Weeks 6-9___Test-E____(taperEW) 80, 60, 40, 20 (mgs)
A-dex on hand if needed (if I need it I will take 0.25mgE5D)[/quote]

You need to have a SERM on hand at the end, in addition to Arimidex. Other than that, if you are willing to go for it, I am certainly interested in hearing your experience, so I hope you will keep a log of your progress.

Good luck.

From what ive read if i recall correctly you should definatley stop the adex before the taper. Keep some nolva on hand in case the estrogen gets out of control.
Im into week 3 of 1100 mg/wk of test E. Only thing I would change from what im doing now is to add some proviron in. Definatley something to consider with what you have planned.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Other than that, if you are willing to go for it, I am certainly interested in hearing your experience, so I hope you will keep a log of your progress.

Good luck.
[/quote]

Yeah, man… no problem. I plan to start a log once I get things going (should be some time after new years). Look forward to it, for sure. I forgot about the SERM! I remember you talked about it in your last thread.

[quote]LillGuy001 wrote:
Only thing I would change from what im doing now is to add some proviron in. Definatley something to consider with what you have planned.[/quote]

I will look into adding some proviron in once I find out exactly what it does. I guess I could look to Corte’s previous post to find an answer to that. Thanks for the suggestion.

[quote]Jakebambeeno wrote:
LillGuy001 wrote:
Only thing I would change from what im doing now is to add some proviron in. Definatley something to consider with what you have planned.

I will look into adding some proviron in once I find out exactly what it does. I guess I could look to Corte’s previous post to find an answer to that. Thanks for the suggestion.[/quote]

A large increase in exogenous test, especially as large as what you are planning, will result in an increase in Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG). This is bad, because test will, well, bind to this globulin and will not be free for use. Proviron reduces SHBG so more of the test that you shoot gets used. I completely agree that it would be a good addition to your cycle, if you have the money (and it will end up saving you money over the long run).

Ok, cool. So if I run the proviron at 25mgED (what Cortes did), do I need to reduce the intake of daily a-dex (.25mg) since the proviron has anti estrogen effects? Also when I do cut the a-dex (after taper), what amount of nova (SERM) would be a good amount to take daily if I do have estrogenic side effects? And… more importantly… do I only take this if problems arise, or do I need to take preventative action before symptoms? Thanks for the help.

[quote]Jakebambeeno wrote:
Ok, cool. So if I run the proviron at 25mgED (what Cortes did), do I need to reduce the intake of daily a-dex (.25mg) since the proviron has anti estrogen effects? Also when I do cut the a-dex (after taper), what amount of nova (SERM) would be a good amount to take daily if I do have estrogenic side effects? And… more importantly… do I only take this if problems arise, or do I need to take preventative action before symptoms? Thanks for the help.[/quote]

Read toward the end of JellyRoll’s “My First Time” thread for a taper which purposefully included nolva toward the end. Your cycle is heavier so I would just do what you have planned. I’m not an expert, but from what I have read, yes, you would only take the nolva if you had some sort of problem during the taper, which would be unlikely but possible.

If you did have problems, some say start with a big dose like 80mgs for one day then 40 and about a week later 20 and keep that until all estrogenic sides are long gone. Others say even that is too much, 20 then 10 would be better. I did a week at 40 just to be safe and am now at 20 and I’m still here.

Proviron and adex should be fine together.

I switched quite a few things around since my supplier only has certain products. Here is what I am thinking.

Week 1-4___Adrol_______80mgED (20mg 4XD)
Week 1-9___Test-E______450mgE3D
Week 1-9___Masteron____50mgEOD
Week 1-9___A-dex_______0.25mgED
PCT(weeks 10 on up, but starting at 1 for convenience)
Week 1-5___Test-E______100mgEW
Week 6-9___Test-E_____(taperEW) 80, 60, 40, 20 (mgs)
Nolvadex on hand if needed

I also took a look at my darts I received the other day, and I just realized they are only a 3ml max (they say 3cc/mL). So, it looks like I am going to have to makes 2 injections to get that amount of test every third day. Oh well.

SO… everything looks good? I guess I am going to go through with it

[quote]Jakebambeeno wrote:
SO… everything looks good? I guess I am going to go through with it[/quote]

Is your test 100mg/ML? Is that why you’re thinking double?

Also…for the taper:
Will you split your dosage into E3D as well?

I’m finally convinced the taper is the way to go.
Reading eveyone’s experiences changed my mind completely.

I would be interested to follow along as this cycle progresses. Will you be posting?

Looks good

[quote]AlterEgo wrote:
Is your test 100mg/ML? Is that why you’re thinking double?

Also…for the taper:
Will you split your dosage into E3D as well?

I’m finally convinced the taper is the way to go.
Reading eveyone’s experiences changed my mind completely.

I would be interested to follow along as this cycle progresses. Will you be posting?[/quote]

That is a very good point you brought up about the test being 100mg/mL (I guess I neglected that). I don’t know exactly what it will be, so I will have to wait and find out. I assume, this will also be dependent upon whether I need to do one or two injections. During my taper I might very well split it up… Haven’t really thought about it to be honest. I plan to start a new thread once I start my cycle with updates every day about training, diet, how my cycle is generally progressing, and progress pictures. Look forward to getting under way.

Aloha everyone!

Will be starting H drol and M drol in about a month and was wondering if I could get some input with anyone who have gone this route…

Will be going 1 cap H drol 2 X a day and going 1 cap M drol 1 x a day. In between that, I will be taking saw palmetto for the prostate, milk thistle and Perfect Cycle for the liver. I will also be taking Omega 3 caps, glucosamine and a multi along with whey protein. I wanted to get experienced feedback from some of the experts here in T-Nation. Also, would 6 OXO and Rebound XT be a wise choice for a PCT? Or would one of them be enough? What else would I need to be taking during my post cycle therapy time? Please do not hang me on the cross for asking what may be topics that already may have been covered, as I am looking high and low on all the different topics and couldn’t find too many articles on H drol and M drol. Thank you for your time and any response would be much appreciated!

Haynsupaman.