T Nation

First Cycle, Thoughts?


Let me start off by saying I have been reading many threads on this site as well as profiles and other resources.

I'm 25, 5'10", 170lb. and I've been working out since I was 17. I've gone through phases of mostly cardio, to mostly lifting over the years.

I'd like to try a first go at some chemical enhancement. My concerns: I'm hair-loss prone and so I'm a permanent propecia user. I don't want to mess with needles (yeah, I'm being a wuss here), and I'm not looking to make huge gains in the typical 8 - 12 week cycle.

I'd be happy with adding 10 - 15lb LBM and getting more vascular. I'd like to avoid anything that might make me lose more hair and avoid acne (I'm pretty prone there, too).

So I'm thinking: 40 - 60mg anavar (split twice daily) for 8 - 12 weeks.

Something I'm mulling over is adding 30 - 40mg of OT to this, forming a stack. I haven't been able to find much information regarding OT, however, so I'm not sure how this plays into the hairloss and other side effects issue.

My questions are:

  • Would my Anavar dosage be enough to produce some quality lean mass gains in the 10 - 15lb range?

  • Would I need some PCT with this? I've seen conflicting information about this -- what PCT if any?

  • Does OT sound like the right gear to stack in my situation? What about the side effects?

Thanks for your input folks!


Running orals for more than 4-6 weeks is never advised, with six being the absolute max that most recommend If you're looking for 10-15 lbs., a cheaper way to do it would be to check out the MM threads. Read more man.


MM? Not sure what that acronym means.

I can see 4 - 6 weeks for the more taxing testosterone orals, but I've read of athletes using Anavar for prolonged periods of time, albeit low doses. I know Anavar is a 17a1, so it still needs to be watched, but I've seen claims of it still being relatively mild compared to other 17a1s.

I've read conflicting things, so I'm hoping someone actually experienced in using these orals could share their experiences and knowledge.



What is your hang up with needles. You realize oral steroids are harder on your system than injectables are? Especially if you are planning on running it for 8-12 weeks. At 5'10 170 pounds you definately do not need aas to put weight on and remain vascular.

You need 6-7 chicken breasts a day with low g.i. carbs at each meal, and a big breakfast, and proper post workout nutrition. Lets face it, you don't need to use aas to get there you just want to take a short cut.

With that being said.... In my opinion d-bol w/ winni would be a good combo for 6 weeks max 30mg d-bol 50mg winni. Like i said eat lots and eat clean and you will remain lean and put on mass. Sad thing is wou will probably lose 90 percent of your gains when you come off.


MM = methyl masterdrol = superdrol

You could get 10-15lbs. out of a cycle of this as many did, at much less cost than a cycle of var. Just a thought...


This MM stuff seems pretty new -- I'll try to absorb some more information about it. Thanks.

I've heard of d-bol being very tough on the hairloss prone, even while on finisteride, nizoral, etc. This is probably going to be the case with any really androgenic gear that converts to DHT. This is one of the reasons I was leaning towards Anavar, Primo, and possibly Deca (converts to DHN, not DHT). OT looks interesting too, it's seems similar to d-bol, but much less androgenic. And yes, I am already a perpetual propecia user so it's not just a case of "add propecia to the cycle" -- just because you use finisteride with a stack doesn't really mean you're all that protected if you're hairloss prone. I takes months for daily finisteride consumption to get blood serum levels of DHT down very low and that's when you've got normal testosterone blood serum levels, nevermind when you have many times the normal levels.

I've got a good cheap source for the 'var, so the cost really isn't an issue. I'd likely stack this with anything else I did if I decided to stack.

If I did 'var only, what would be a good dose and what should the PCT look like?


superdrol will give you the same side effects as gear, costs more, and can give you gyno so you need to run PCT. you might as well go with the orals which are usually cheaper than superdrol.


How do you figure it costs more? Especially when compared to var? SD can be bought for about $50/bottle, which has enough for two cycles. Add in your supps and pct, and you're looking at about $200 for 2 cycles.


Actually,you can get it for under $30 a bottle


Ye, The FDA has put out a letter condeming superdrol and the supp suppliers seem to be trying to sell it all while they can. The typical price right now is close to 25 bucks for 90 caps. Easily two cycles.


Dude - you are 170 pounds at 5'10". 170 @ 5'10". Once more just to let it sink in - 170 @ 5'10"

Eat and lift. Leave cardio for the ladies. Eat and lift. Eat more and lift. Then eat some more and lift some more.

You are looking for the easy way out. If you really want size - nutrition and training will do you better than popping some orals. Especially at your size.

There have been 9 posts on this thread and I am the first to tell the kid to eat big and lift hard.

The rest of you should all take 3 weeks from posting anything and use that time to actually read about nutrition and training.

I am embarrassed of all of you.


Although I agree with your advice, it is given repeatedly on every AAS and Superdrol thread.
People are going to do what they want- let's just give advice on the best way to do what they have already made up their mind to do.
You are not going to "parent" people over the internet.
You just "parented" the advice seeker and the advice givers.


When it is apparent that people want to get on here and prove how smart they are - with no regard for common sense or safety, It is my job to call them on it.

Your attitude is exactly the reason that little twinks get horrible advice. I could give a shit if my advice sounds like a fucking parent. It is the truth. Just because you want to talk about your knowledge of M1T or SD, or whatever the hell is the PH of the day does not make what I say any less the truth.

If more people would tell the truth and stick with being honest instead of giving in - maybe there would be a few less 150 twinks running around asking for help on a fucking AAS cycle.

Maybe you need someone to act like your parent. Your advice sucks ass - and I don;t care who you think I am acting like


I was thinking this. He's been lifting since he was 17, he's 25 now, and he wants to do steroids at 5'10 and 170?

Eight years of no progress? And now steroids? I don't know about that. Sounds like the program sucks and he's not eating enough. Why would you say for him to go 'on'?


It seems like things have gotten a little off-topic here -- sorry guys.

I should mention I do eat quite a bit. I have trouble gaining weight -- I used to be a twig. At 17 I was 145lb. I've managed to get to 170lb with similar BF I had back then. At this point, I try to keep the calorie count high, but the diet relatively clean and the only way I've been gaining weight has been by adding BF -- for the past 2 years I haven't been able to really put on any lean mass. It's taken me years to get to 170lb, but no change since then. Anyhow, I feel like I've hit a plateau and I'm just looking for a mild to moderate kick -- not something too obvious to those around me, and I'd like to not accelerate my balding in the process. :slightly_smiling:

Thanks and I hope people don't get bent out of shape trying to give me a hand here...


List your diet. Everything you have put in your mouth for the last 7 days - write it down and post it here.

Unless you are shitting parasites after every meal, I will guarantee that you are not eating enough to grow.

Yo are not bending me out of shape. But don't think for a second that I just fell off a turnip truck and you can get away with calling being 5'10" and 170 a fucking plateau.

List your food intake. Then we can proceed.


It's your "job" to call them on it?
Who appointed this position to you?
How much do you get paid?
You missed my point cause you were too busy defending your post.That type of advice is given repeatedly on these threads and I agree with the advice, however it's sorta like telling your teenage kids to abstain from sex.
Do you remember when you were that age? Did you listen? And you expect them to heed the advice of a total stranger over the internet!
Just like advising our kids on safe sex, we should advise on the safe way to use these drugs/supplements, etc.

PS- my turn to parent- do you have to use so much profanity in your posts.
You sound really tough and SCARY!!!


I don't make a dime. I have been here considerably longer than you, and have posted over 150 times for each of your current total of 30-something.

It has been my unappointed job around here for the last three years to call bullshit when I see it. Ask around. You may not like me, or my job here, but that is not really my concern. How much did you pay to join this site? That's kinda what I thought. I actually paid 29.95 to join - anybody else remember those days?

Yep - and the shitty manner in which paretns are doing their job is no reason that I should be just as shitty since "everyone else is doing it".

Yes I do.

Yes I did.

Nope - but I have a responsibility to call bullshit when it is smelling up my forums. Yes - I said MY forums. Please relate that to teenage sex, and unwanted internet advice - I want to see how you connect the dots

Gee - he's asking for advice over an internet forum - and you think it is just too much to swallow that someone would give advice? What am I missing here, because that makes no sense whatsoever.

There is no such thing as safe sex. There is such a thing as personal responsibility. That's what I teach my kids.

Look back over my 5500 posts. Now read over any of the articles here, paying particular attention to Dave Tate, TC, and Shugs. Notice anything other than the fact that they know how to write? Yep - we all cuss. We use profanity. This is not a children's site. If my language offends you, or you equate that with me being a "really tough sounding, SCARY" person - that is your perogative.

But honestly, I couldn't care less.

This is how I have posted since I joined here. This is how I will continue to post when idiots get on here and make up some bullshit fucking excuse for why it is okay to advise a 5'10" 170 pounder that has "hit a plateau" to use AAS, or PH, or anything other than eating BIG and lifting hard. If you don't like it - ignore me, or leave. I can promise you I am not going anywhere.


I'll give today as an example -- I usually follow the same pattern.

  • 3 egg white + sausage (4 sausages) omellete and a 16oz cup of green tea (9:30am)

  • a bowl of chopped up pineapple and cantelope and some strawberries (11am)

  • roast chicken and potatoes (i ate about half the chicken), salad, basmati rice, and some beans with mushrooms (1pm)

  • eas carbsense protein shake (4pm)

  • 6 big soft tacos w/ roast chicken breast, lettuce, cheese, and pico de gallo and then some of the gf's chicken fajitas (8pm)

  • I usually have a yogurt and some fruit or a sandwich on whole wheat before bed as well.

  • I have a habit of constantly snacking on almonds at work as well. Sometimes other mixed nuts, but mostly almonds.

I try to keep my stomach busy most of the time I'm awake.

It seems like everyone's getting a little confrontational or something. I'm getting to the point where I'm sorry I asked, guys.

Take care...


In all honsety, after looking at your energy intake - you should be sorry you asked about doing a cycle.

My wife eats more than you, and she weighs 145.

My suggestion to you is to read up on everything Berardi, and Lowery have written on this site. You diet is clean, but extremely lacking in calories. You have to eat big if you want to get big.

I weighed 162 soaking wet when I was your age and am the exact same height. I was over 200 pounds and 11% BF before I even considered taking AAS last year.

Don't cheat yourself by thinking that var or drol or dbol will magically get you to where you want to be. You have to eat big to get big even when on AAS.