T Nation

First Cycle... Thoughts?

Hey Guys,
First off I want to thank the guys on here, (BBB, BoneZ, Cortes, Bill Roberts, VT Balla, Mr. Walkaway, Big Squatta, etc). You guys do a great service for all of us. A little about me:

Age: 25
Height: 6’3
Weight: 210
Bodyfat: Currently 8-10%
Years training: 5 years hard and heavy with high protein, high carb, moderate fat, and ample rest. Current 3 rep PR for DL/BP/S are 415/305/375.
Cycle goal: Add 20+ lbs lean body mass. I understand some fat comes with it.
Cycle History: This will be my first.

         Cycle Plan:
   Weeks 1-8 Test E at 500mg/week (split into 2 shots, 250mg mon, 250mg thurs)
   Weeks 1-8 Arimidex at .25mg eod (will up this to ed if necessary)
   Weeks 10-14 Nolvadex 40/40/20/10

I’m considering adding Dbol as a kickstart, or I may utilize it once the test kick in. Either way, I would run it at 30mg a day for no more than 4 weeks. I’m also considering a front load of a 750mg Test E shot the first day, and then 250mg shots as usual, for a total of 1000mg test e the first week. I also like the idea of tapering off the adex during PCT, in hopes of avoiding (as much as possible) a rebound effect from the Nolvadex.

everything seems good except for week 4 of your pct. do 20mg last week as well.

I would switch the adex with aromasin, and use 12.5mg EOD.

[quote]jared530 wrote:
I would switch the adex with aromasin, and use 12.5mg EOD. [/quote]

You should be banned from T-Nation.

[quote]jared530 wrote:
I would switch the adex with aromasin, and use 12.5mg EOD. [/quote]

Why?

If you’re only doing 8 weeks of Test E, a front load is an absolute must, and I would strongly recommend the Dbol as well. You could bridge to PCT with the Dbol.

It’s an ok beginner cycle, but I highly doubt you are going to put on 20 lbs of lean mass.

I would make it 10 weeks, and still do the frontload.

If you use d-bol wait until week 3 to start. Or you could use it the last 2-3 weeks of the cycle, and 2 weeks after the last injection to bridge until PCT. 30-40mg per day.

[quote]overstand wrote:
If you’re only doing 8 weeks of Test E, a front load is an absolute must, and I would strongly recommend the Dbol as well. You could bridge to PCT with the Dbol.

It’s an ok beginner cycle, but I highly doubt you are going to put on 20 lbs of lean mass.[/quote]

It’s a good idea, but it’s not a must. Kickstart with dbol is fine (especially if he’s in a situation where he only has enough test for 8 wks @500/wk). Don’t know what’s up with this notion lately (bordering bro-science now) that dbol is only worthwhile as a bridge.

I don’t see what’s unrealistic about gaining 20 lbs of muscle. I KEPT 18lbs of what I put on my first cycle- which was just 500mg/wk Test E and 30mg/day Dbol.

Thanks guys! I will consider your fine suggestions. And now, some classic “flex” appeal as a peace offering:)

[quote]overstand wrote:
If you’re only doing 8 weeks of Test E, a front load is an absolute must, and I would strongly recommend the Dbol as well. You could bridge to PCT with the Dbol.

It’s an ok beginner cycle, but I highly doubt you are going to put on 20 lbs of lean mass.[/quote]

I support this position. Especially the dbol bridge.

About PCT.

This works: Nolvadex 60mg/d for the first 3-4 days. Then 40mg/d for the next 5-6 days. Then 20mg/d for the last 20 days or so. There is no evidence that 40mg is any more effective than 20mg and the higher dose is just to get the blood levels up.

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
If you’re only doing 8 weeks of Test E, a front load is an absolute must, and I would strongly recommend the Dbol as well. You could bridge to PCT with the Dbol.

It’s an ok beginner cycle, but I highly doubt you are going to put on 20 lbs of lean mass.[/quote]

It’s a good idea, but it’s not a must. Kickstart with dbol is fine (especially if he’s in a situation where he only has enough test for 8 wks @500/wk). Don’t know what’s up with this notion lately (bordering bro-science now) that dbol is only worthwhile as a bridge.

I don’t see what’s unrealistic about gaining 20 lbs of muscle. I KEPT 18lbs of what I put on my first cycle- which was just 500mg/wk Test E and 30mg/day Dbol. [/quote]

In an 8 week cycle I think the ideal use of the dbol is 8 weeks that overlaps into the bridge.

But for the more conservative I think the using dbol for the first 3 weeks and the last 3 weeks before PCT starts (bridge + 1 week) is very effective.

If only 4 weeks of dbol are available I think its best used at the end. Especailly in a first cycle when one wants to assess his side effects tolerance of the test regarding AI use.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
If you’re only doing 8 weeks of Test E, a front load is an absolute must, and I would strongly recommend the Dbol as well. You could bridge to PCT with the Dbol.

It’s an ok beginner cycle, but I highly doubt you are going to put on 20 lbs of lean mass.[/quote]

It’s a good idea, but it’s not a must. Kickstart with dbol is fine (especially if he’s in a situation where he only has enough test for 8 wks @500/wk). Don’t know what’s up with this notion lately (bordering bro-science now) that dbol is only worthwhile as a bridge.

I don’t see what’s unrealistic about gaining 20 lbs of muscle. I KEPT 18lbs of what I put on my first cycle- which was just 500mg/wk Test E and 30mg/day Dbol. [/quote]

In an 8 week cycle I think the ideal use of the dbol is 8 weeks that overlaps into the bridge.

But for the more conservative I think the using dbol for the first 3 weeks and the last 3 weeks before PCT starts (bridge + 1 week) is very effective.

If only 4 weeks of dbol are available I think its best used at the end. Especailly in a first cycle when one wants to assess his side effects tolerance of the test regarding AI use. [/quote]

If I’m only going to be running an 8 week cycle then I want to feel like I’m on for the whole 8 weeks (10 if you count the two prior to PCT). I’m a very impatient person though and I can’t stand the idea of injecting myself for two weeks before seeing any kind of results.
Mentally I like the idea of the gains coming right away and then maintaining them/watching them steadily/slowly increase over the next few weeks rather than nothing for two weeks, slow gains over the next five weeks, and then bigger gains, and then going off everything. I also think it’s a better way to acclimate yourself to the muscle/strength gains.
Especially after your first cycle, I really see no reason why you wouldn’t use both a kickstart and PCT-bridge.

Bonez wrote:
About PCT.
This works: Nolvadex 60mg/d for the first 3-4 days. Then 40mg/d for the next 5-6 days. Then 20mg/d for the last 20 days or so. There is no evidence that 40mg is any more effective than 20mg and the higher dose is just to get the blood levels up. [/quote]

Thank you.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:

[quote]overstand wrote:
If you’re only doing 8 weeks of Test E, a front load is an absolute must, and I would strongly recommend the Dbol as well. You could bridge to PCT with the Dbol.

It’s an ok beginner cycle, but I highly doubt you are going to put on 20 lbs of lean mass.[/quote]

It’s a good idea, but it’s not a must. Kickstart with dbol is fine (especially if he’s in a situation where he only has enough test for 8 wks @500/wk). Don’t know what’s up with this notion lately (bordering bro-science now) that dbol is only worthwhile as a bridge.

I don’t see what’s unrealistic about gaining 20 lbs of muscle. I KEPT 18lbs of what I put on my first cycle- which was just 500mg/wk Test E and 30mg/day Dbol. [/quote]

In an 8 week cycle I think the ideal use of the dbol is 8 weeks that overlaps into the bridge.

But for the more conservative I think the using dbol for the first 3 weeks and the last 3 weeks before PCT starts (bridge + 1 week) is very effective.

If only 4 weeks of dbol are available I think its best used at the end. Especailly in a first cycle when one wants to assess his side effects tolerance of the test regarding AI use. [/quote]

I have 4 weeks of dbol @ 30mg per day, and 4 weeks of winny @ 50mg per day. I was saving the winny for another cycle, but I’m open to using it in this one (if it’s not overkill). What do you think of this:

     1-8 500 mg Test E (with frontload)
     1-3 30mg Dbol ed
     7-10 50mg Winny ed
     10-14 Nolvadex 60mg/d for 3-4 days, 40mg/d next 5-6 days,20mg/d for 3 or so weeks.

Of course, as you mentioned controlling estrogen with multiple compounds could be tricky for a 1st cycle.

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
If I’m only going to be running an 8 week cycle then I want to feel like I’m on for the whole 8 weeks (10 if you count the two prior to PCT). I’m a very impatient person though and I can’t stand the idea of injecting myself for two weeks before seeing any kind of results.
Mentally I like the idea of the gains coming right away and then maintaining them/watching them steadily/slowly increase over the next few weeks rather than nothing for two weeks, slow gains over the next five weeks, and then bigger gains, and then going off everything. I also think it’s a better way to acclimate yourself to the muscle/strength gains.
Especially after your first cycle, I really see no reason why you wouldn’t use both a kickstart and PCT-bridge.

Thanks Toby Queef,
That makes sense. I’m trying to get a hold of some Test Prop and just run that for 8 weeks pinning ed at 100mg for 700mg per week. I like the idea of “shorter” cycle’s until, eventually I decide to blast and cruise.

[quote]neoclassical wrote:

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
If I’m only going to be running an 8 week cycle then I want to feel like I’m on for the whole 8 weeks (10 if you count the two prior to PCT). I’m a very impatient person though and I can’t stand the idea of injecting myself for two weeks before seeing any kind of results.
Mentally I like the idea of the gains coming right away and then maintaining them/watching them steadily/slowly increase over the next few weeks rather than nothing for two weeks, slow gains over the next five weeks, and then bigger gains, and then going off everything. I also think it’s a better way to acclimate yourself to the muscle/strength gains.
Especially after your first cycle, I really see no reason why you wouldn’t use both a kickstart and PCT-bridge.

Thanks Toby Queef,
That makes sense. I’m trying to get a hold of some Test Prop and just run that for 8 weeks pinning ed at 100mg for 700mg per week. I like the idea of “shorter” cycle’s until, eventually I deceide to blast and cruise. [/quote]

Ok, but now you’re completely changing your cycle. One reason people opt for Test E for the first cycle is because of the less frequent injections. You’ve never pinned before, but now you’re going from doing it twice a week to seven times a week. Definitely not something I would’ve done. Might want to make sure you can handle that kind of regiment before doing it. That’s a lot of inj. site rotation for a first cycle.

True…56 > 16, and this will be my first cycle. I understand it’s not just the frequency of injections that could be troublesome. I must rotate sites…etc. In theory I have no problem with this, but actually pulling it off is something you know more about than me. Thank you for sharing your experience.