T Nation

First Cycle, Testosterone Only. Had Estrogen Side Effects Before

Pharma
#1

Hello every one! thats my current stats:
24 years old, around 15-16% bf, 5 years of natural training, 1,81cm tall and 86kg.
I want to do a testosterone only cycle when i cut my bf into 12% or so…
When I was a teenager I had a fat percentage around 30% and now I have a slight gynecomastia but nothing serious, so I want to be careful with the side effects of estrogens. I don’t want to include hcg as I know it aromatizes and I read that it’s not necessary in testosterone cycles.

CYCLE:
-Week 1-4 test-E 300mg (starting tamoxifen in the 2 week 10mg)
-Week 5-8 test-E 400mg with 10mg
-Week 9-12 test-E 500mg with 10mg tamoxifen
-Week 13-14 ¿¿nothing or continue with tamox???
PCT
-Week 15-16 40mg tamox
-Week 17-18 20mg tamox

My doubts are:
Would you add anything to the cycle?
Would you take something away from the cycle?
Thank you very much!

#2

Looks fine. I don’t believe there is any benefit to pyramiding testosterone in that fashion on a 12 week cycle I actually think it can be counter productive. The faster your body regulates itself to a steady peak level the more enjoyable the cycle will be IMO.

As far as the tamox goes run it all the way thru there is no need to stop for anything if that’s what you wish to do.

Side note the doctor here reccomends running nolva at 20mg/day on cycle to prevent gyno. I have no personal experience using this method but if I were to try it I would follow his advice.

1 Like
#3

Thanks @zeek1414 , would you use during the cycle an AI???

#4

No I would not. Pubertal gyno does not neccarily mean your are prone to gyno. Matter of fact I was a fat fuck growing up. I think I was 250 all fat by the time I was 13 probably well above 30% BF. I had major bitch tits. They are gone now sense I have been working out 10+ years and have filled all that extra chest skin with muscle. I don’t like AIs unless necessary. I don’t think they should be apart of someone’s cycle layout. I think they should be kept on hand and used when necessary. If gyno is an issue I would use nolva if my erection is all fucked up and I’m suffering from other severe high E2 symptoms that need to be remedied then I would use an AI but that’s not an issue for me.

If gyno is your concern run the nolva I wouldn’t use a SERM and an AI on cycle tho.

1 Like
#5

Thanks again!! @zeek1414 So, then I take 20mg every day of tamoxifen during the cycle, during the 2 weeks 13-14 and then do the PCT 40/40/20/20 correct?

#6

Exactly

1 Like
#7

I concur with the poster above and wouldn’t pyramid the Test. I’m actually a proponent of front-loading a cycle but on a 12 week run simply pinning 500mg/week from weeks 1-12 is fine as well.

I do use an AI on cycle and don’t use Nolva unless I begin to have the tell-tale tingly nips which only ever happened when I added dbol to a cycle. I understand others may disagree.

1 Like
#8

Hi @Test_Icicle thanks for posting!! Do you think it is necessary to use AI with doses of 500mg test? What and at what dose would you use? Aromasin 12.5mg EOD ?

#9

I’ve never used Aromosin so I can’t help you dose it, but I do find that .25mg twice a week of Anastrozole per 600mg/week of test works very well for me. If/when I use dbol I may increase my total weekly dose to 1mg split evenly (or so) EOD. My dbol doses are fairly moderate (3 x 5mg/day kickstart for 2 weeks and another 3 x 5mg/day the last few weeks of a cycle after ceasing test).

Because I front load my cycles I begin the AI immediately, however if I wasn’t going to front load I would begin an AI based on 1) the respective half lives and serum concentration of my aromatizing compounds or 2) when my socks leave marks around my calves, lol.

1 Like
#10

Thanks @Test_Icicle !! In your 600mg cycle a week of test did you use .25 of anastrozole on the day of the pin? What post cycle therapy did you use? Tamox 40/40/20/20 ?
Any side effects?
Thanks :)!!

#11

Timing of the anastrozole doesn’t matter if you’re taking it 3 x a week or 4 times per 8 days. My PCT has always been Nolva 40/40/20/20.

No sides, ever, but I’ll pat myself on the back a bit and mention that I always did well-researched, conservative cycles.

Eh, I take that back. I did get some test E out of FL (underground) that would give me flu-like chills for 36 hours after injecting. That stunk but the stuff was good otherwise. I believe it was because it was suspended in cottonseed oil which has a high potential for allergic reactions (at least vis-a-vis other oils). Lot’s of water-retention on dbol but I absolutely love the mood-enhancing effects of it, maybe even more than the anabolic ones. And of course, I’ve crashed my E on anastrozole. I know when my E is dropping too much because my wrists start to feel stiff and sore. By the time my elbows start to hurt I’m so tired I can barely move around and my hard-ons spontaneously deflate after about 2 minutes. The only fix is to wait…or dose yourself with ~ 40mg of dbol a day to crank the E back up, lol.

#12

Not that anyone asked but my “perfect” cycle right now is 12 weeks of test E, front-loaded, 600mg/week, with HCG throughout to maintain testicular function and 100mg of Proviron per day starting in week 6. AI and Nolva kept on hand.

Because I’m almost always cutting up during my cycles the above is just about perfect for me.

1 Like
#13

Could you tell me why that’s your favorite cycle for you? How much HCG do you use?250UI twice per week?

#14

Zero sides, I look better than ~ 98% of the people my age, but don’t get so big that I have to have to 1) purchase new suits and shirts and 2) explain to people in my life how a middle-aged man got so big so quickly.

210 pounds at 10% might sound like a dream to you but it would be a fucking nightmare for me. Right now in my office I’m the handsome older guy with the great arms and shoulders and I’m very happy with that. Too much bigger and people might start raising some questions.

But about the cycle itself, it’s conservative, it’s inexpensive, I look great at the end of it, my testes don’t atrophy, and I keep my erectile function throughout though 3-5 weeks after the end of the test things get a bit wonky. Nothing 20mg of cialis can’t fix though.

400 iu of HCG 3x week.

1 Like
#15

Thanks!! Now I’m a little confused, I don’t know whether to use an ai or nolva during the cycle, I’ll wait to read more opinions and be able to decide, thank you very much!
@Test_Icicle how old are you?

#16

Mid-40s.

Most of my steroid knowledge is informed by Bill Roberts. He is one of the most knowledgeable writers on the subject and even those that disagree with him certainly respect the amount of research he’s put into the topic.

I would find one of his many articles on the internet and would weigh his opinion much more highly that anyone else’s on the subject including my own.

#17

I used .25 mg adex twice weekly also, any higher was too much, also I was taking proviron 25 to 50 mg as well…proviron dude

1 Like
#18

I recently went to an endo again and he said the same thing but he recommended clomid… same shit I guess.

what’s the drawbacks of running 20mg/nolva everyday on cycle though? does it kill gains?

1 Like
#19

In my opinion it don’t kill gains, simply reduces water retention, therefore you will gain less weight, but I do not believe that the use of tamox during cycle will reduce the muscle gains.

#20

Thanks for posting! How was your cycle?