First Cycle. Test, Tren, Tbol. Advice?

Not sure to be honest, never touched the stuff. I’m sure you will find out soon enough!

Unless the answer is “zero” I would posit that you haven’t been doing much quality research. Outside of the fever swamp forums you will not find anyone advocating for any tren on a first cycle.

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the only reason to taper up is if things aren’t going well, lol. if you’re getting results, and you feel good, why change things?

with all due respect, you don’t speak for ‘this forum’. That’s disingenuous and misleading to a first-time poster here. I don’t agree with you, and I’ve been a voice on here for many years longer than you have. And I don’t get to speak for the forum either.

So that being said, I do agree that he should drop the tren. There are other more mild injectables I would consider along with test for a first cycle, but tren is a different animal. I think on the injectable side, test-only is the best way to do it.

I like to use orals in every cycle I run, and because they act so fast, I think you CAN learn how your body responds to both a new oral and a new injectable in one cycle. If you run an oral for the first 4 weeks of, say, a 12 week cycle, the gains and feelings you have will be due specifically to the oral in the first 2-3 weeks, and the injectable the last 6 weeks. My first cycle was 750 test per week and 50 dbol per day.

The other benefit of running an oral at the beginning of your first cycle is that you’ll be less likely to be tempted to raise the dose without good cause. I’ve seen so many guys on here running their first cycle, of test only, raising their dose after 2-3 weeks because they don’t feel anything. If you have something in your system from day 1 that you’ll be able to feel, that will be more mentally satisfying. If you’re extremely disciplined and wouldn’t alter dose no matter what, then this isn’t such a big deal. but the temptation is surely real for many people.

yes and no. Many pro bodybuilders and strength athletes use insulin to enhance their gains, and it’s very effective. Physioljik has talked about insulin as actually being a relatively safe option if you know what you’re doing, and follow a good protocol. He prefers it over a lot of more common steroids.

to reap the benefits of exogenous insulin, you’ll have to cater your dosing to that end. If you just use it as you normally would, you probably won’t see any benefit from it.

I’m not going to get into specific dosing, because I’ve never used it, but I can tell you the main idea is getting fast-acting insulin into your system prior to training, along with a commensurate amount of glucose to stabilize you. Insulin is very anabolic, and using it around your training window can be very beneficial.

Speaking statistically from first cycle responses my friend… I personally like an oral with a test cycle but most here don’t advocate that. You don’t like my phrasing in a lot of posts. Got it.

FWIW my first cycle was also test and dbol. I thought it was a great first cycle.

Thanks for the info that was very informative! I think I’m going to run the tbol with the test and just stay true to dosage on the test. I’m thinking of tbol instead of dbol because it doesn’t aromatize and less sides and water retention with tbol. I’ll have arimadex on stand by and nolva for pct. how long can I run the tbol alongside the test? I’m thinking 60mg/ed and 500-600mg/wk for test? Or should I bump the test up a little more?

Curious, what are your tabs dosed at? Tbol has a longer half life than dbol so you don’t need to spread out your intake as much.

They are 20mg tabs

IMO one tab in the morning and one in the evening would suffice for a total for 40mg. Its half life is 16 hours so if you don’t want to split it up you prob don’t have to.

Why not 60?

Personal choice for you sir. You could try 40mg for the first 3 weeks and then bump to 60 for the last 3. Or just do what you want.

Thanks everybody! I just didn’t know if there was a reason you said 40 instead of my proposed 60. I’ll give it a shot man!!

doses are fine. I’d keep the oral to 5 weeks or less. diminishing returns after that.

and yea like shaw said, you can split the dose or not, doesn’t matter much. I don’t split doses on orals. I think the net impact is negligible. I did the first couple cycles, didn’t really seem to matter.

Thanks a lot brother! I’m going to be putting your advice into action!

I agree with @flipcollar rationale for adding an oral, and I think Dbol would be best, but I think you also need liver support.

I was on TRT, ran a blast of 500mg of test, and did 40mg of Dbol a day for the first four weeks, sort of. I really used the Dbol as a pre workout on days I lifted, so not everyday.

And, my cholesterol went from 200 to 240 and my liver enzymes were elevated. They weren’t batshit crazy, but were elevated.

I would stick to Test only, 500mg a week, no AI, have it on hand.

But the DBOL idea of 40-50mg a day isn’t a bad idea. Test only will take three weeks at least to feel it.

Get blood tests before, after four weeks, and again after the cycle I think.

Didn’t see your PCT, but make sure you have that sorted as well.

EDIT: Also be able to explain why you are getting jacked to your friends - it will get noticeable.

Problem is, this is bad, on orals HDL typically gets crushed, so chances are LDL increased by 50-60 points if not more, certain subfractions of LDL are more dangerous with regard to long term risk of atherosclerosis and arterial calcification however when you have a HDL/LDL ratio of like 1:15 it’s baaaaad, with winny the ratio can be like 1:282828381783919918 lol

This is quality advice right here.

so I’ve been negligent in that regard, but I actually just bought TUDCA for the first time yesterday. I’ve decided to use it every time I incorporate orals going forward.

I’ve always come back with good bloodwork, but last year I had a couple stretches where I just felt run down, kinda sick, no appetite, and I’m assuming this could have been from the fact that I wasn’t supporting my cycles appropriately. Trying to be more responsible this year :slight_smile:

Thanks for doing me a solid! I am going to have arimadex on hand and nolva for pct. I will definitely get some thistle and liver support for the orals as well

I didn’t think you were negligent, figured you were good with out it. Like AI’s if I recall correctly.

I was only speaking from personal experience, which is admittedly limited. I only know because my liver shit went up and I was taking Tudca. Guessing I’m a special snowflake. Just highlights the importance of blood work if you’re going to do it right.

FWIW, never took an AI.

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Old thread but I’ve run a lot of tren and it works complete opposite for me I look at the exhaust of my truck and think that might be suitable my wife loves it for that reason but hates the guy I turn into when cycling it. But yes I have heard horror story’s about tren definitely not a newbie thing to run