T Nation

First Cycle Test P + Winstrol


#1

Hello , first i'm going to apologize because my english isnt good . I'm 27 years old been training for 3-4 years now. I weigh 87kg with 10% body fat , heigh 180cm . My goal is to add some strenght and lean gains with my first cycle with the proper diet and training program. So heres my cycle:

1-6 Test P 100mg EOD ( 300mg a week)
1-6 oral Winstrol 40mg daily
1-6 Nolvadex 1 tablet daily
1-6 Carsil 1:3 ( 10mg Winstrol : 30mg Carsil) for the liver..

My PCT starts 4 days after the last injection of Test P:
Closfflbegyt ( 5 days 20mg + 10 days 10mgs)
Tamoxifen 30mgs daily for 2 weeks
+ Tribulus , Creatine , BCAA , Vitamins and fish oil.

Thats it , i'll be very grateful if u give me some advice about the PCT and the protection during the cycle.


#2

BUMP.. please give me some advice


#3

Alright mate I'm in a similar situation so just going to tag on here to see if you get a response if you don't mind, I'm planning on doing the following but am waiting on advice to tweak etc. before ordering;

Week 1-8 Sustanon 1 dose per week of 250mg
Week 1-6 Winstrol Tabs 20/30/40/40/30/20 mg per day in two doses
week 1-8 Arimidex 0.5mg either every other day or each day waiting on advice for this
week 4-8 Proviron 25mg per day
week 11-14 clomid 40\30\20\10 mg per day
week 11-14 nolvadex 40\30\20\10 mg per day

I'm also waiting on some advice for HCG in the cycle as it appears to be recommended but not sure if it is necessary in my cycle. What you think mate? I'm no expert as this is going to be my first cycle but yours seems quite short at 6 weeks.


#4

weeks 1-6
test E 100mg EOD (350/week)
adex .25mg EOD
3-4 days after last pin

either/or both if you prefer

Closfflbegyt 100/100/50/50

or

tamoxifen 40/40/20/20

winny is garbage

Sam_boy

Week 1-10 Sustanon (must be pinned at least EOD)
Week 1-6 Winstrol (winstrol is garbage)
week 1-8 Arimidex 0.5mg either every other day or each day waiting on advice for this (depends on your dose, anything over 750mg/week should be .5mg ED imo)
week 4-8 Proviron (proviron is garbage)
week 13-16 clomid 40\30\20\10 mg per day
week 13-16 nolvadex 40\30\20\10 mg per day


#5

Why should i use Test E its a long ester ? most of the people say it "kicks in" at 3 or 4 week of the cycle , dont you think test p is better because he is fast ester for this short 6 week cycle .. and why do you say that winny is garbage?


#6

Well , from what i've read it will be great and very helpful to run HCG during the cycle (250iu to 500IU ) two times a week to maintain testicular form and function and that will help to the PCT . I'm going to use that too. And yes its a short one because i just want to start with something light like this and i dont have big goals just want to add 10lbs if its possible.


#7

@ Mr Walkway

Thanks for your input, the more I research the more conflicting opinions I get so could you just clarify a couple of your comments for me please.

First one Winny is garbage?
I have read that if bulking isn't my goal and I want to put on less but more likely to keep it post cycle then this would be a good oral to combine sustanon with, is this simply not true?

Second one Sustanon pinned every other day?
I read that sustanon has tests that release at different times so once or twice a week is normal for this, is this simply not true either?

Adex dosage, I'm considering 250mg or 500mg of Sustanon and then probably up to 50mg of the oral so is .5mg EOD the right dosage for this? Someone has told me in a different thread I shouldn't take it at all because my joints will feel bad?? So confused.com .

Proviron is garbage is it? I was told to add it later in cycle to stop side effects etc but must admit I didn't find too much positive on this.

Clomid and Nolvadex for PCT or both? I'm getting mixed feedback on this.

@johnsnow

Ye I have heard good things about HCG but it is pretty expensive to run with the cycle and I'm not sure on the difference it will make what have you heard on this?


#8

Winny is only useful for precontest cycles, it is harsh on your body (liver and hairline) and the effects are minimal.

Proviron is a very weak steroid, it provides in increase in free test though which provides a libido increase. Pretty much it.

Arimidex does not make your joints feel bad, too much arimidex and too little estrogen makes your joints feel bad. Winny also dries them out.

Sustanon should be pinned more frequently. You want your blood levels to remain stable, and sustenon contains a bunch of different esters that release differently. Your short esters will release in a day or so, your long ones can take a week or two. More frequent injections of any ester will keep your blood levels more stable, all you are avoiding by spreading em out is discomfort. 250mg a week is a little low. Alot low unless you have some other stuff coming in aside from winny and proviron, I would double it.

HCG is nice, not necessary but makes things alot easier to come back from, I will always use it.

Clomid and Nolva are not needed together, but they do work differently and have some distinct obscure benefits. If you have them both it could not hurt to use them.


#9

Winny is only useful for precontest cycles, it is harsh on your body (liver and hairline) and the effects are minimal.

Proviron is a very weak steroid, it provides in increase in free test though which provides a libido increase. Pretty much it.

Arimidex does not make your joints feel bad, too much arimidex and too little estrogen makes your joints feel bad. Winny also dries them out.

Sustanon should be pinned more frequently. You want your blood levels to remain stable, and sustenon contains a bunch of different esters that release differently. Your short esters will release in a day or so, your long ones can take a week or two. More frequent injections of any ester will keep your blood levels more stable, all you are avoiding by spreading em out is discomfort. 250mg a week is a little low. Alot low unless you have some other stuff coming in aside from winny and proviron, I would double it.

HCG is nice, not necessary but makes things alot easier to come back from, I will always use it.

Clomid and Nolva are not needed together, but they do work differently and have some distinct obscure benefits. If you have them both it could not hurt to use them.


#10

Thanks C M L I haven't actually got anything yet I wanted to make sure I have the right cycle planned out and then try and source everything so I can start from scratch, I'm a reasonably large framed guy and have never done steroids but am finding it really slow and hard to add any additional muscle now but feel like I could cope with another stone on my frame, my plan is to do one cycle as safe as possible, come off and keep as much as possible without any lasting negative effects. If it goes well I may consider again once more but not going to become a regular user or big big guy like some of you are (not that that's a bad thing just not my aim).

For these goals would you adjust my cycle to the below or start again?

Week 1-8 Sustanon 250mg every other day
Week 1-8 Arimidex 0.5mg every other day
How should I add HCG?
Week 10-12 Nolvadex or Clomid?

Thanks

Sam


#11

Or should I do 125mg sustanon EOD?


#12

Just do the math on the sustenon, you are looking at nearly 875mg of test per week with 250mg EOD and 437.5mg test per week with 125mg EOD. I think 875 is probably a bit high for a beginner, around 500-600 should be plenty.

HCG should be taken 250-500 ius 2x per week starting a week or 2 into your cycle. Hell you could probably start it week one, don't think it would matter much. Discontinue 4-5 days before pct.

Arimidex looks good, adjust it according to how you feel. Low libido and excess water = too much estrogen, low libido and dry achy joints = too little estrogen.

Nolvadex is typically considered superior to clomid, but clomid helps recover HPTA production of leutinizing hormone, to which HCG functions as an analogue and can have an impact on. Take em both to be safe, 2 weeks might be ok for an 8 week cycle but 3 weeks would be safer.

BTW don't let me dissuade you from trying different compounds too its just the two you had selected were less than stellar.


#13

Nolvadex helps increase LH as does Clomid, but Clomid decreases the response in LHRH.....

additionally, the myth of test taking several weeks to kick in has no basis on the pharmacology of the drug at all....

Testosterone ester Terminal elimination half-life (d)
Testosterone propionate 0.8
Testosterone enanthate 4.5


#14

Thanks for all the info c.m.l I don't mind being dissuaded on certain compounds I just want to put a good solid cycle together so that I can do it and afterwards either keep what I have and be happy I tried it or maybe do another next year. I don't want to waste money or end up with any long term negative effects so that I regret trying it.

How does this look then?

Week 1-8 Sustanon 250mg every 3rd day
Week 1-8 Arimidex 0.5mg every 3rd day (Is it a bad idea to take same day as Sustanon pin?)
Week 3-9 HCG (What dosage if taken every 3rd day?) (Is this an issue on same day as Sustanon pin and Adex?)
Week 10-12 Nolvadex 40/30/20
Week 10-12 Clomid 100/50/50

Just thinking logical timings for taking stuff as well.

Thanks Cycobushmaster I think I get what you are saying but how would that effect the above cycle anything you would change etc?


#15

Sooo..... lots more advice and I have put this together can someone take a look please? I feel so close to being ready but still have these questions to find the answers to.

First Cycle Draft

Week 1-8 Day 1-57 (57 days 19 doses) Sustanon 250mg Every 3rd Day (4 x 1250mg/5ml = £90.00 - 250mg/1ml left)
Week 1-12 Day 1-87 (87 days 29 doses) Arimidex 0.5mg Every 3rd Day (1 x 30mg box = £33.00 - 15.5mg left)
Week 3-9 Day 13-63 (51 days 17 doses) HCG 250iu Every 3rd Day (1 x 5000iu = £22.00 - 750iu left)
Week 10-12 Day 66-87 (21 days/doses) Nolvadex 40\30\20 mg per day (3 x 300mg box = £30.90 - 270mg left)
Week 10-12 Day 66-87 (21 days/doses) Clomid 100\50\50 mg per day (1 x 1500mg box = £15.50 - 100mg left)

Total Cost = £191.40

Should I add an oral or another injectable to cycle?

Is dosage all ok on all of these for a first cycle i.e. enough for good results low enough to avoid sides?

If I take Sustanon, Arimidex and HCG every third day can these all be on the same day?

Does pricing seem about right as this may be an indication on the legitimacy of the supplier?

I know I can't ask about a supplier on here but can I ask about the quality of a maufacturer as these are all made by one?

Do any of these clash such as Nolvadex, Arimidex and Clomid at the same time at these dosages for the final 21 days?

The one I am most unsure of is HCG, does this seem right for pricing/dosage/ammount?
It comes with a 2ml vial of liquid to mix the dry solution with but someone told me to use 250iu each time so is it going to be hard to split this into that small dose?

Is 1 inch 25 gauge needle in the quad going to be good for the sustanon? How about the HCG?

Final question does anyone know if there is a way to legally buy needles and syringes in the UK?


#16

Take tren op tis awesome.


#17

Ye I have been looking at Tren, Win-Dep and Deca as possibilities for adding to mine they all look pretty good and like they would stack with sust pretty well, just doing some reading currently on dosages when combining them.


#18

I've started my own thread with new revision of cycle so anyone willing to help go to;

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/hub/Sam_Boy#myForums/thread/5805264/

Thanks in advance

Sam