T Nation

First Cycle Test-E/Winny


#1

Hey guys. Big fan of this forum, it has been extremely useful already. I just started my first cycle, as of now I’m running 12-weeks test e and winstrol:

Weeks 1-12: test e 125mg e3d (totals out to about 315mg/week)
Weeks 7-12 winstrol (oral) 50mg/ day
Support: adex 0.5 m/w/f, milk thistle, glucosamine

Pct: clomid 100/100/50/50

Stats: 5’11, 230 lbs, 18-20% bf (I know this is high) 26 years old, ~8 years of consistent training.
The goal of the cycle is to improve body composition. If I gain 5-10lbs of clean muscle and reduce body fat % while doing so I will be perfectly happy.
My question is: With this lower dose of test e, is it safe to run 16 weeks? I’ve heard 2 major schools of thought, I’m not sure if the risk is worth the reward. I would also start winstrol at week 10, making it a 6 week cycle.


#2

I am torn. On one hand I want to give you a good answer. On the other hand I want to tear my hair out because you said you’ve found this site to be extremely useful and yet have done a bunch of things that this site says, in no uncertain terms, you should not do. So what answer does one give at this point?


#3

Why do you want to use winstrol? You are aware of what winstrol will probably do to you’re lipids, I sound like a broken record saying this however the documented harshness of stanozolol on the lipid profile is unlike any other (medically used) AAS I know of.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2915439/

“Stanozolol reduced HDL-cholesterol and the HDL2 subfraction by 33% and 71%, respectively. In contrast, testosterone decreased HDL-cholesterol concentration by only 9% and the decrease was in the HDL3 subfraction. Apolipoprotein A-I level decreased 40% during stanozolol but only 8% during testosterone treatment. The low-density lipoprotein cholesterol concentration increased 29% with stanozolol”

The real kicker is, this was on only 6 milligrams per day…

The adex is also unwarranted, I don’t understand why people chose to use ancillaries on cycle when they don’t need them. If you start getting gyno, high blood pressure or extreme water retention you can think about adex, but just starting with adex opens up a whole new door or potential side effects, not to mention that when an aromatase inhibitor is used with testosterone (or any other aromatising androgen), HDL cholesterol is greatly impacted, estrogen is important for cholesterol management.

Our resident endobuilder (endocrinologist/bodybuilder) has a few threads on AI’s, check them out.

High BF + Winnie is like… Atherosclerosis in a bottle

I personally think you’d be better off just running the test, just my opinion though


#4

Ditto what @unreal24278 said. 300+ of test a week isnt enough to warrant E control. You could run straight test for 16 weeks easy.


#5

Are you referring to breaking a rule or running a stupid cycle?


#6

Winnie at this point is a MAYBE. Being my first cycle I’m not sure I wanna use more than one thing. I should’ve said that, I apologize.


#7

Stupid cycle. And it isn’t stupid so much as it is reckless. Drop the winstrol, drop AI unless you start to need it. Run it out for 16 weeks and be amazed at the results.


#8

No winstrol it is


#9

Good choice. Nice to see someone come here, ask for advice, then actually listen to the advice.


#10

Update: I’m almost a month into my cycle, I feel it: crushing workouts, better energy and mood overall, making progress in the weightroom regularly on a push/pull/legs split (I’ll go back for the second half of the week and at least get an extra rep or two even while on a lower carb diet). However I feel like I’m retaining some extra water (more than I expected to on a low-moderate test dose) and I DEFINITELY got some gyno. So I am adding back in the adex to deal with it. Just wanted to keep y’all updated!