T Nation

First Cycle: Test E / Winny


#1

Planning on running my first cycle in a couple months, in the process of planning / acquiring and wanted to have my proposed cycle double checked by some of the more experienced guys here.

Background:

5'9"
175 lbs
10% BF

Bench: 315 x 3
Squat: 405 x 3 (needs help)
Deadlift: 405 x 3 (needs more help, haha)

I've been "lifting" since I was 12 (middle school / highschool football) and lifting seriously with my diet in check for the last 3-4 years.

Currently consuming ~3000 calories on lifting days, roughly 250g carbs, 300g protein, 75-100g fat. I eat the same 7 things day in day out, just adjust the carbs or fat intake based upon the day. I can easily lower or raise my calories since my diet is so simple (boring?).

Training is on spot, following a Mountain Dog training regiment 5days/wk, fasted steady state cardio anywhere from 3 - 5 days a week depending how I feel.

Proposed cycle

Wk 1 Test E, 750mg (Frontload, will probably do 500mg Sunday, 250mg Wednesday)
Wk 2-8 Test E, 250mg 2x/wk, 500 mg/wk
Wk 5-10 Winstrol 50mg ED (Taken in morning weeks 9 and 10 while T is naturally lower)

AI and SERM
Wk 2-8 Adex, .5mg ED
Wk 10-13 Nolva, 40/40/20/20

Now, a couple of questions.

Since the cycle is somewhat shorter, HCG shouldn't be necessary, correct? I can get it if I have to, but it's not available from the sources I'm currently using/trust and will cost quite a bit extra if I include it (due to order minimums).

I have pre-existing gyno, fairly slight but still there from puberty. Mainly instead of a very noticeable lump (although there is one), I just store a lot of fat around the nipple. Any additional precautions I should take given that I will most likely be very prone to agitating pre-existing gyno, or will the Adex taken from Wk 2 be fine? Also plan on taking the Adex from the start to help with water retention.

Third, I have quite a bit of clen already lying around. Would it make sense to throw it in with the last two weeks of the winny only after I've finished pinning the test (even though I know its still active for ~10 days)? Kind of confused on the proper protocol for this, or if it's even necessary or worth it... I know about the proper way to dose clen should I include it. i.e. 20mcg/40/60/80/100......../80/60/40/20.

Thanks in advance for any advice or criticism.

Edit: Added lifting stats. Also, is their anything I could add in that might help with joint pain? I've never experienced any real joint pain aside from a little bit of elbow / shoulder pain when I bench heavy, which I rarely do anymore. Aside from another AAS. I don't want to complicate this any more than necessary for a first cycle.


#2

looks alright mate, I’d still run the hCG. Allows for easier recovery. Easy recovery = keep gains.

If the gyno’s a concern then I’d run the AI from the start.

You have to wait for the test to clear out your system before you start your PCT. This means waiting 2 weeks from your last shot before you start. As for the winny, you might want to consider taking it the last 2 weeks you are pinning, and the 2 weeks while the esters clear. It’s called bridging and a lot of people like running their orals like that to keep them gaining right up til PCT.


#3

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
looks alright mate, I’d still run the hCG. Allows for easier recovery. Easy recovery = keep gains.

If the gyno’s a concern then I’d run the AI from the start.

You have to wait for the test to clear out your system before you start your PCT. This means waiting 2 weeks from your last shot before you start. As for the winny, you might want to consider taking it the last 2 weeks you are pinning, and the 2 weeks while the esters clear. It’s called bridging and a lot of people like running their orals like that to keep them gaining right up til PCT.[/quote]

I thought I had it set up that way…

Last shot of test will be Wednesday of week 8, then I’ll start the PCT (nolva) the two weeks later (wednesday of week 10).

Should I run Adex throughout that 2 weeks of bridging when I’m taking only winny, stopping (or tapering off) by the time PCT starts?


#4

oh yeah, sorry you had it right, I misread it. My apologies.

Yeah, run the adex during the two weeks but taper it down. So for the first week of bridging keep running it at .5mg eod, then the second week run it at .25 eod.

Enjoy it mate, let us know how you get on.


#5

0.5 mg/day sounds high for Adex. I understand you are concerned about gyno, so this may be a trade off for you. Know the signs of too low of E2 and keep an eye on them (joints/libido/mood). You may feel like shit.

Frontload at 1 g first week (500x2) for your 500 mg/week cycle.

I recommend everyone use HCG while on cycles. Cost/benefit analysis is favorable, compared to the alternative. Ultimately your decision.


#6

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
0.5 mg/day sounds high for Adex. I understand you are concerned about gyno, so this may be a trade off for you. Know the signs of too low of E2 and keep an eye on them (joints/libido/mood). You may feel like shit.

Frontload at 1 g first week (500x2) for your 500 mg/week cycle.

I recommend everyone use HCG while on cycles. Cost/benefit analysis is favorable, compared to the alternative. Ultimately your decision.[/quote]

^ x2


#7

Well, finally got around to starting this. Had a little extra test, decided to go 600 mg/wk.

Just did my first 600 mg front load just now. First EVER injection on my own. Sat there staring at my thigh, syringe in my hand just, wondering if I could do this and how bad it would hurt.

Next thing I knew, the needle was in my leg up to the hilt, and I couldn’t feel it. Completely painless. Just figured I’d share :slight_smile:


#8

Welcome to the dark side, oh and hope your leg is not to sore tomorrow haha


#9

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Welcome to the dark side, oh and hope your leg is not to sore tomorrow haha[/quote]

Got a flu shot a month ago. It was around 0.5cc. Hurt like a bitch.

Planning on taking a wheelchair to work tomorrow.


#10

[quote]PulsedEE wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Welcome to the dark side, oh and hope your leg is not to sore tomorrow haha[/quote]

Got a flu shot a month ago. It was around 0.5cc. Hurt like a bitch.

Planning on taking a wheelchair to work tomorrow.[/quote]

Haha, ibprofin helps


#11

every time I pin my quad I’m crippled for a week. I kept pinning it in the hope it would get better, but no, crippled everytime.

I’ll never pin my quads again as long as I live


#12

Ya… pretty painful today. Think I’m going to try my glute for the next injection, just worried about it being at an awkward angle for the 2nd injection I’ve ever done. Any tips for this spot from the vets?


#13

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
every time I pin my quad I’m crippled for a week. I kept pinning it in the hope it would get better, but no, crippled everytime.

I’ll never pin my quads again as long as I live[/quote]

My quads are my favorite spot, painless


#14

[quote]PulsedEE wrote:
Ya… pretty painful today. Think I’m going to try my glute for the next injection, just worried about it being at an awkward angle for the 2nd injection I’ve ever done. Any tips for this spot from the vets?[/quote]

I found it hard to pin my right glute I find that lying Down helps


#15

Quads, delts, ventro-glute. There is no reason to pin your glute if you’re aware of the ventro-glute site. If you can’t walk for a week after pinning your quads, you’re doing something very wrong. I regularly inject 2 1/2 mls there and have never once had anything more than slight stiffness for a day.


#16

The quad really is a nice pinning spot… until the next day when more often than not I find myself reading the “Injection Pain” sticky to make sure I didn’t fuck anything up. Good luck with that cycle it seems real nice, let us know how it goes. Gonna be shredded at the end!


#17

[quote]Toby Queef wrote:
Quads, delts, ventro-glute. There is no reason to pin your glute if you’re aware of the ventro-glute site. If you can’t walk for a week after pinning your quads, you’re doing something very wrong. I regularly inject 2 1/2 mls there and have never once had anything more than slight stiffness for a day.[/quote]

lol, hard to think what could go wrong really. Needle goes in, oil goes through needle, needle comes out…


#18

So pain in my quad is completely gone. I just think it was the fact that it was 2 mL into a virgin muscle. Second pinned yesterday into glute (was nervous injecting at an awkward angle for the first time, particularly aspirating, but it went well enough). Interested in looking into the ventro-gluteal site, just nervous doing it alone based off of just YouTube videos. It’d be nice if I could find a good POV injection site video.

I feel like I’ve noticed a slight increase in strength and more intensity in the gym, but I think that could just be attributed to a placebo effect as it’s only been a week.

I took body measurements and I’m recording weight / measurements throughout the cycle (and will also record measurements for a while post cycle to evaluate gains kept). I feel I’m a decently experienced, decently sized guy for a lifting community who is a good candidate for a simple, first cycle. Hopefully, this thread will help out others looking to start a first cycle, where they should be, and what they can expect.

Diet
Currently shooting for about 3700 calories, 5-6 meals (included PWO) broken down as:

Protein: 400 grams (only about 100 g comes from whey / shakes. The rest is either from chicken breast, ground beef, or tilapia / salmon).
Carbs: 300 grams. PWO is low-fat poptarts. The rest of my carbs sources are either sweet potatoes, rice, or oats. Eating a cup or two of veggies per meal, but I don’t really count those in my daily carb totals.
Fat: Only fats are from natural sources, ground beef or fish. Minimal amount from EVOO used on veggies.

I’m usually pretty strict on diet, but certainly won’t turn down a double bacon cheeseburger or something like that if they opportunity presents itself. It’s not like I’m getting ready for a contest or anything. Sort of follow the 90/10 rule: 90% of the time I eat clean, 10% I’ll let myself cheat.

Supplementation

  • Fish Oil, about 10-15 g per day.
  • Whey Protein (again, about 100g per day of this. 50 post workout, 50 spread out throughout the day depending on my schedule that day)
  • BCAA’s / ECAA’s / Beta-Alinine / Caffeine / Yohimbine pre workout. I usually lift fast first thing in the morning and drink a mixture of this pre workout and during my workout.
  • Generic multivitamin.
  • Creatine
  • Going to start taking a liver aid in a couple of weeks when I get closer to the Winny portion of the cycle. Any suggestions?

I’ll post some more about my training later when I have some time. It’s nothing too crazy, normal BB weekly split. Incorporating some of Meadows high volume stuff in with normal 10-12 rep BB style lifts with usually one strength and one explosive movement per workout. It’s worked for me in the past, so I’m sticking with that but just adding more volume for obvious reasons.

Any questions feel free to ask, although most in this thread are more experienced than myself.


#19

[quote]BUDs wrote:

[quote]PulsedEE wrote:
Ya… pretty painful today. Think I’m going to try my glute for the next injection, just worried about it being at an awkward angle for the 2nd injection I’ve ever done. Any tips for this spot from the vets?[/quote]

I found it hard to pin my right glute I find that lying Down helps[/quote]

I’ll try this next time. Laying down on your side in a fetal position, I assume?


#20

[quote]PulsedEE wrote:

[quote]BUDs wrote:

[quote]PulsedEE wrote:
Ya… pretty painful today. Think I’m going to try my glute for the next injection, just worried about it being at an awkward angle for the 2nd injection I’ve ever done. Any tips for this spot from the vets?[/quote]

I found it hard to pin my right glute I find that lying Down helps[/quote]

I’ll try this next time. Laying down on your side in a fetal position, I assume?[/quote]

Not really in a fetal position but more on your side with the leg on whatever your side your injecting over the other. I find when I do this it gives my left arm more reach over my right glute, so I use my left hand to hold the syringe and use my right to aspirate and inject.

To find the VG site you can put your hand on your hip around waist level with your thumb out forward then spread your index finger and middle finger and it should end up in like a “pit” in your leg. If you kinda lift your leg up and out you’ll see like an indent in your leg should be like 1.5" to 2" big