T Nation

First Cycle: Test E and Dbol Dosages

looking to start on dbol and test e,
looking for suggestions on how much to take with these 2 together

500 mg/week test E for 10-12 weeks. Don’t bother with the dbol; but if you must: keep it light, like 20mg/day for no longer than 6 weeks

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sounds good, i’m taking dbol also with it because im skinny asf rn

If you’re “skinny AF” maybe you need to focus more on diet and training first before introducing steroids.

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im really not that skinny but, just wanna bulk up more

Why does everyone tout 500mg/wk as being the optimal dosage for a 1st cycle, I’m legitimately curious, is there any scientific backing demonstrating 500mg is superior over say 300-400mg in a WELL TRAINED individual with regards to accruation of LBM?

I’ve seen the studies comparing 300-600mg is healthy men, however these aren’t athletic individuals (who would see far less of a gain in LBM in response to AAS compared to DYEL status dudes). I’m curious as to whether 500mg is actually neseccary for a 1st cycle or whether one can do equally well (or close too) on lower doses. I’ve never gone above 250mg, granted I’m not hyoooge and guys who use higher doses are a lot larger than I am. I still get nice gains, faster than what I would in a hypogonadal state and/ or physiologic state. I’d say I can progress 2-3x faster on 250mg compared to 125mg/wk.

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This is right. I like to see guys start on 300 or so a week for first cycles. You can always go up but It’s real damn hard to go down in dosages over time. My first cycle was 300 mg of test/wk x 8 weeks haha.

I remember when I first met John meadows and he said - If someone can’t grow off 300mg/wk their training / nutrition is shit. And he was right haha.

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Test E, C, TNE or P? There’s a lot of broscience stating one “needs” to use medium estered test (say enanthate or cypionate) for at least 10 wks, while it may take a similar amount of time to reach a steady state, the body grows the most from the first 6-8 wks, then gains taper off rapidly as the body down-regulates AR (and a host of other fun stuff happens yeet) and thus reaches homeostasis once again. There seems to be this consensus that hormones only “work” or “kick in” around wk 6-8 for longer esters, however that’s just… not… true. Shoot someone with 500mg test E for 2 wks, then give them a blood test, their concentrations of T will be WELL over physiologic limits (provided you aren’t a genetic anomaly) and thus growth should begin almost immediately.

Did you use HGH/slin (I mean, I believe you were in med school, thus you’re knowledge about said compounds would be substantially higher than the regular gym bro, and with great knowledge comes great… knowing how to use pharmaceuticals, and you were competing, right?) or did that come into factor later in the game?

Probably not any scientific backing but there is tons of bro science backing this claim. Personally I think it should be up to the individual after they have done plenty research. If they want to run 300 cool or if they think that 600 will be better so be it.

I know there is a lot of body builders and people who use AAS that claim there is def a big difference in 300-600 and if your gonna shut your natural system down might as well make it worth it and get as much as you can. This probably influences a lot of new users to run 500(if they have 250mg/ml test) or 600(if it’s 300mg/ml) because it’s also easier to just draw up a ml.

I guess my counter argument would be what’s the harm in running 500mg/week For 12 weeks rather than running 300mg?

The lower you start with, the less you need later on. Who wants to be the dude running 1G/wk after their second cycle. Staying lower decreases the chances of acquiring premature onset cardiovascular disease (esp cardiomyopathy, biggest concern of all when it comes to AAS in my opinion)

But if we’re talking one singular cycle, 300-500 probably won’t make a difference in overall harm.

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I agree with the above statement. The cycle described by the OP was my bread and butter combo when I first started about 10 years ago. Since then I’ve learned how affective, and smarter, lower doses can be. After taking decent breaks from gear then going back on and trying lower doses I can’t help but wonder how much better off I would have been if I had used 250 mgs/week instead of 500 starting out my first cycle. Starting at higher doses pushes guys to up the doses earlier on in their “steroid careers” and this is risky to say the least. For instance, I seemed to progress my way up to 800mgs and eventually over a gram faster than I should have. Anyway, I’m no doctor and don’t tend to give advice or suggestions unless I believe my experience can back it up and in this case, I personally would run the test at 250 mgs per week for 12 weeks and the Dbol at 20-30 mgs for the first 6 weeks. Sweet and simple for a beginner, which is what beginners need. PCT will be easier, you’ll have some juice leftover and your body won’t have quite as hard a time readjusting.

Sorry guys, I tend to ramble but that’s my .02 cent.

Most UGL test is dosed at 250mg/ml, so it makes the math easier for bros? I honestly don’t know. But maybe it’s because everyone, no matter how weird their response rate, will have good results with that amount? Genuinely don’t know. But it’s easy shorthand, that’s for sure.

Ya my theory was if im gonna stary fucking my hormones up and eventually end up on trt I’m gonna make it worth it and try to maximize gains out of every cycle. This is one of the times I personally side with bro science. But to each thier own. If you want to start out small and go up that’s cool I’d rather start high and go down to where I’m happy not gaining anymore and I’m just keeping gains.

My reason is by my mid 30s I don’t want to be blasting anymore just cruising on a trt dose maintaining

This makes no sense at all. Why do you need to run a bigger dose then what you run on your last cycle? What’s wrong with running 500mg first then 500mg again?

Nothing, it just isn’t how people tend to do things. Firstly, the second time you run 500mg, you likely aren’t going to get the same level of gainzzzzz as you’re body has been exposed to the same level of stimulus before, and thus won’t be satisfied, thus feeling the urge for using higher doses. Not to say you won’t make gains, you can still make excellent gains using the same dose, they just likely won’t be of the same calibre as the 1st time you used that exact same dose.

Secondly, people tend to start stacking after their 1st cycle (so test, then test and EQ etc), the result tends to be someone using up to 1G if not more on their 2nd or 3rd cycle… It’s ludicrous if you ask me (unless you’re trying to compete/ become a professional athlete like a strongman or something)

Think about it, how many people do you actually know who have kept to the same dose cycle after cycle?

Well maybe people are idiots and need to start thinking about what they’re doing :joy:

You know i personally disagree with the only run test for the first few cycles (this type of thinking probably would lead to increase dosage) but I think that there are a lot better androgenic and anabolic compounds out there then testosterone alone. I think a test only first cycle is great to know how you react to testosterone because in the future it’s going to be a base for cycles but IMO future cycles can easily be test (at trt dose) then use something else for you androgenic and anabolic properties.

just do test only at 300 mg/week or test with eq 250mg/week each of them.

i am on eq and test cycle 250mg both every week total 500mg

250mg/eq a week is pretty pointless.
I think eq is a great drug but if your gonna run it it should probably be in the 500-800 range

But that’s my point. If I were to run eq I wouldn’t jack my test dose up higher than when I ran a test only cycle I’d keep it at probably 200/week and jack the eq up.

what about rbc ? too much eq might raise rbc dramatically? or should i add deca also :slight_smile: