T Nation

First Cycle - Test E 250mg + Winny 50mg / 10wks On


#1

I’m currently about to start my first cycle and need your thoughts on the best estro blockers from experience. And also what’s people’s thoughts on Clomid from experience ? Doing a 10on , 4 week PCT. Been lifting for nearly 4 years , avg 5-6 days a week. Have always trained hard as fuck & only ever take time off if I’m sick. I am 19, though I feel I’ve got a quite developed physique for my age & I’ve also had my diet on track and training on point to the best it can be for the last couple years. Have decided I want to go through with it since I’m inlove with lifting and have hit a pretty big plateau lately. Keep in mind I need to be careful with my cardio health since I have a minor heart murmur. Nothing major, though just wondering what I’ll need to avoid regarding that.
Stats:
Height: 174cm
Weight: 76kg
BF: ~9%

Week 1 - 10: Test E 250mg + Win 50mg
Week 12 - 16: Nolva 40/40/20/20

Please give me some actual feedback rather than just having a Roid rage @ me. Cheers for any help.


#2

You haven’t hit a plateau, you’re 19 but whatever.

What I’m concerned about is the heart murmur, do you know the exact specifics of what type of murmur it is? I presume it’s an innocent heart murmur as you mention its minor

Look, you’re stats aren’t bad, but they aren’t great either, you’re ffmi is literally the same as mine, and I consider myself to be on the smaller side. So, you’re aware of the potential for causing LVH, cardiac damage and whatnot? You’re aware of the effect winny has on the lipids 6mg/day decreases HDL by something like 40% (and certain HDL subfractions by like 80%), and increases LDL by like 30-40% in literature, that’s SIX milligrams, 25 will probably crush you’re lipids, adding to long term atherosclerotic risk.

Then we have the issue of not recovering, if you need TRT for the rest of you’re life that’s a shitty scenario (trust me, I’m younger than you and I’m on TRT, unrelated to gear use). I don’t think this is a good idea, however I know I can’t stop you, I can however give you harm minimisation strategies

1: use liver support (Curcumin, Tudca etc when on any oral)
2: limit or eliminate alcohol and recreational drugs on cycle (actually it’s best to limit it on or off cycle)
3: take bloods before and after cycling, include testosterone, lipids, liver and kidney function, CBC, glucose tolerance and insulin sensitivity and you’re a paranoid freak like me, include regular ECG’s to make sure cardiac health is up to par.
4: don’t run this cycle
5: keep a clean diet on orals or any AAS that seriously fucks you’re lipid profile.
6: keep use, duation and dose at minimum.

I don’t think you know what you may be in for, seriously this is a REALLY bad idea. Kids come in here all the time wanting to hop on gear, you’re young, you don’t know what you want with life (hell I dont even know who I am yet or what you truly want, I have a vague idea but there’s no certainty, things can change in a split second, one minute you’re hanging out with you’re friends and then BOOM you’re off living in another fucking country). If I were you I’d give it another three or four years, discover yourself, make sure this is REALLY what you want.

People are probably going to flame, or “roid rage” as you say at you, not because theyre dicks, but because they care, they’ve seen this before, they’ve seen the consequences and regret people can have from this. Seriously my friend, I can’t stress this enough, make SURE you know what you’re in for and that this is what you want.


#3

You have done no research on aas that part is clear. There is so much wrong with this cycle

4 years isn’t jack shit lift for way more before you consider gear

Way too young to start your about to fuck your little body more Than you know it

IMPOSSIBLE! there is absolutely no way you have hit a plateau at 19 yrs old with 4 years of training either you diet is shit or your training suck which in either case gear won’t fix

This part aling with the rest of this almost makes me think your a troll

This is what you consider a developed physique?

This further confirms my belief you are either a Troll or you just saw some random shit on Google and figured it would be good for you,

Plz give us a serious post when you spend another 5 years in the gym while researching gear and then turn 24


#4

?? Lots of people have heart murmors, I don’t but it’s not exactly uncommon, the differentiation is that some murmurs are dangerous and some are relatively benign, it’s always best to see a cardiologist if you have a murmur to get checked out. Some people live out their entire lives with heart murmurs and never find out they have one.

I think it’s best to explain rationally why this is such a bad idea instead of insulting the guy.

#malvapudding


#5

It’s not neccarily the murmur it’s everything combined about the post with the murmur as icing. Call it tough love or insulting. But I think ignorance to this type of stuff is what gives AAS a bad name maybe if people were insulted for thier ignorance to help them understand exactly how stupid of an idea something is rather than people patting there head, less people will make the mistake. I dont disagree with your approach I just have my own


#6

The heart murmur is due to a shortened aortic valve. It is minor and causes slight regurgitation of blood.
Also I am not planning on starting until maybe 3 months down the track. I’ve only recently started researching and haven’t 100% decided if I’m doing it now or down the track. I know I’ve still got a fuck ton to research. But just wanted some advice to see what I’m getting into.


#7

Okay aortic valve regurgitation + AAS is going to put you at a heightened risk for cardiovascular damage, are you treated with medication for the condition? Are you symptomatic or asymptomatic (do you experience extreme shortness of breath upon intense exertion), what’s youre LVEF? These are parameters you need checked. Aortic regurgitation can be fixed surgically. Seriously bro be careful, you (hopefully) have a full and wonderful life ahead of you, despite the fact that the world sucks and is full of unfairness. #angsty

Just kidding, the world and reality is what you make of it


#8

Thanks for the detailed reply mate. Appreciate the solid response. Definitely getting onto my bloods & seeing a Dr before anything.


#9

Can’t reply in depth at the moment . But I used to see a cardiologist yearly when I was younger, although with age the murmur got much better to the point they said it has barely any risk to me. I don’t experience any side effects of a having a bad heart murmur. Im going to go for a checkup soon and see what it’s looking like at this current time.


#10

Good when you go to that appointment also ask your doctor if they thinks it’s a good idea to run test and winny for 10 weeks at 19 yrs old


#11

What is the goal of this cycle? Strength? Mass? What do you want to get out of it? Because that is a detail that helps us understand what you should or should not be doing.

Disclaimer: you’re too young to start gear, but since nobody who’s 19 ever listens to anyone it’s almost hopeless to talk you out of this. As such I will dispense advice in the interest of harm reduction.


#12

Mainly gain lean mass , I know to be careful with strength since it can dry the joints .


#13

Need some advice with it messing with LDL & HDL, is it worth the risk ? I’m starting to think a Test E solo cycle . Say I reduce the winny to only 8 weeks on & taper off the last 2 weeks, would my body recover completely from it messing with my lipids ? Please need some advice with this. Hard to find any good sources talking about what the recovery is like with this.


#14

Lipids generally come back to baseline eventually. That’s something dictated by genetics and diet. But 8+ weeks of winstrol is going to trash them pretty hard. So I wouldn’t expect to bounce back terribly fast.


#15

So it shouldn’t be much risk to me since I probably will never run winny again? . Only reason is I can’t get rid of it so I’d rather use it.


#16

You’re 19. If you need that much winstrol for that long then you probably don’t have any reason to be using any gear. Unless you’re stepping on stage in a few months or are an elite athlete looking to cheat your way to higher performance then you generally don’t need that particular drug. But if you have to take it then don’t go that heavy for that long. It’ll trash your liver and your joints will feel like they’re full of sand. It’s a highly inflammatory drug, so it’s not friendly for very long.


#17

I listen to people. Unless I’m being told to do something that I find morally objectionable.

Anyway you should look up lipid profiles of people taken on winny, I’m talking an HDL of 4-9 and LDL up 200+ on 50mg/day doses. Can you ditch the winny or use a lower dose? What’s the purpose of the winny? Are you prepping for a competition or something?


#18

Mainly for my job lol. I’m a personal trainer and the gym I work at is quite competitive with people who are serious with bodybuilding. Wanted to push my conditioning to peak as a way of advertisement. But I’ve decided I’m not going to run the Winny… it’s not worth the risk of joint / tendon issues . I’ve had issues in the past with tendinitis so I definitely don’t want that to return. + all the lipid issues & the baldness stuff adds to it. Thanks for responses guys.


#19

Good call, man. It’s nice to see someone ask for advice, take in information, digest it, then make an informed decision.