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First Cycle: Test E 250mg vs 500mg

I’m not arguing that 500mg of test are not better that 250mg, but I do believe that for a first cycle 250mg for 16 weeks would give good gains and will also save you some money in the process.

Here my resoning, a healthy adult male produces about 50-70mg of test a week, in 250mg of test e there’s about 172mg of test, that’s more than 3 times the amount you normaly have… (anectotal evidence proves that you can gain 10-20lbs at 250mg for 16wk)

If you start off at 500mg, yes you will make better gains but where do you go from there for you second and third cycle?

What do you guys think?

[quote]Agon wrote:

I’m not arguing that 500mg of test are not better that 250mg, but I do believe that for a first cycle 250mg for 16 weeks would give good gains and will also save you some money in the process.

Here my resoning, a healthy adult male produces about 50-70mg of test a week, in 250mg of test e there’s about 172mg of test, that’s more than 3 times the amount you normaly have… (anectotal evidence proves that you can gain 10-20lbs at 250mg for 16wk)

If you start off at 500mg, yes you will make better gains but where do you go from there for you second and third cycle?

What do you guys think?[/quote]

I would personally say run 400/week first. And as far as proceeding from there, depending on how your body handles everything, jump to 600, 800, with a ceiling of 1 gram. There seems to be no reason to go over that for most people, as the sides tend to get worse where the benefits/gains remain about the same or go up much less in respect to ratio between gains/sides.

Yes 250/week will produce gains, but like Bushy said to someone a while back the jump to even just 400 is exponentially more powerful and will produce much better gains, without turning you into Lou Ferrigno btw, lol.

I just finished a 4 weeker of phenylprop/mast and got great gains from it, so you’ll most likely produce solid gains at 400 compared to the 250. Test is fairly cheap anyway, so I would spend a little more money and run 400 for 10-12 weeks vs. 250 for 16. But just my opinion.

              good luck though,

                   ToneBone

You will hear alot of different opinions on this.My first cycle was test cyp @250mg for 10 weeks and kickstarted it with SD @20mg for the first four weeks.I couldn’t get dbol at the time.Anyway I had great rusults with this.My second cycle will be test cyp @500mg for 10 weeks and dbol@30mg for the first four weeks.Isn’t 16 weeks kind of long for a first cycle?

[quote]BIG_SEXY wrote:
Isn’t 16 weeks kind of long for a first cycle?[/quote]

I honestly don’t think so, but I’ve heard a few people say that after week 12 they stop gaining

If it were me, I would be doing 500mg/wk for 8 weeks.

BTW, you can’t gain 10-20 lbs of muscle if you are already reasonably well developed.

[quote]MasterfulStroke wrote:
If it were me, I would be doing 500mg/wk for 8 weeks.

BTW, you can’t gain 10-20 lbs of muscle if you are already reasonably well developed. [/quote]

Let me clarify… You can’t gain that much muscle in ONE cycle if you are already well developed.

[quote]MasterfulStroke wrote:
If it were me, I would be doing 500mg/wk for 8 weeks.

BTW, you can’t gain 10-20 lbs of muscle if you are already reasonably well developed. [/quote]

I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree with you here. Although you did get the idea right with running the shorter sort of cycle.

However, if you’re going to run one <8 weeks, then you need a higher dose-- say 700mg/wk minimum. The difference between 700 and 500 is quite significant.

And as far as gaining 10-20 pounds, sure ya can-- it’s just a matter of how permanent it will be. Look at Cortes and myself for example. We both put on huge amounts of weight and were far from small guys to begin with.

World

[quote]World1187 wrote:
MasterfulStroke wrote:
If it were me, I would be doing 500mg/wk for 8 weeks.

BTW, you can’t gain 10-20 lbs of muscle if you are already reasonably well developed.

I’m going to have to go ahead and disagree with you here. Although you did get the idea right with running the shorter sort of cycle.

However, if you’re going to run one <8 weeks, then you need a higher dose-- say 700mg/wk minimum. The difference between 700 and 500 is quite significant.

And as far as gaining 10-20 pounds, sure ya can-- it’s just a matter of how permanent it will be. Look at Cortes and myself for example. We both put on huge amounts of weight and were far from small guys to begin with.

World

[/quote]

I don’t think we disagree actually. Though for some reason I interpreted the OP’s post as meaning that he wanted it to be 10-20 lbs of muscle. After I read it again, that’s not what he actually said.

But yea, I could put on 10-20 lbs in a week probably! It won’t be muscle though, lol.

I agree with everyone saying that more is better but, the point I’m trying to make is that you CAN make good gains on 250mg…

And yes the 2Olbs of “muscles” is a bit far fetched, just look at 20lbs of lean cut beef and them tell me about you ading that kind of muscle

I will first say that I don’t have the science background the support what I am saying. That said, I have read plenty of people’s experiences and have my own to base my judgment upon as well. It seems to me that your body’s natural production of test will be affected either way, 250 or 500, you are going to be shut right down.

In fact, I’ll go further than this. I’ll say that you are going to be shut down the same at 250 or 1200mgs a week. However, the way those amounts of test affect your gains will be wildly different. You can easily reason which is going to afford the maximum gains in the shortest period of time.

The other thing I have observed based upon reading hundreds and hundreds of “case studies,” is that it is a LOT harder for guys to recover from being shut down for 16 weeks as opposed to 8. I don’t know why, but your body just bounces back more quickly from a shorter cycle, all other factors being equal. So anybody can do whatever they want, and anybody will probably make some gains even at 250mgs/w (I’m not even touching on whether or not they are the gains you could have made at a higher dose), but I’m not in this to put myself on voluntary TRT. I take AAS as a means to a healthy end, and in the end I would rather be OFF than ON, believe it or not.

This post got much longer than I intended. But last thing I’ll say is, based upon personal experience, my gains slowed WAY down after week 8. Another 8 weeks would be best served recovering and maintaining, not making gains at a snail’s pace, so that after those 8 weeks you were off and recovering, you could either continue naturally or jump back on and break PRs all over the place.

Also Agon why do you seem to have some personal investment in convincing us that 250mgs a week is great? This isn’t the only place you’ve posted about this. There are plenty of guys here with plenty of experience that say it is not optimal.

250mg a week is basically a waste IMO. I will say that a person on that dose who is on for life (TRT basically) will probably have more muscle than someone without it though. But still, 500mg won’t cause major sides for most and there is a big difference IMO.

Agon you are attempting to apply logic and “anectotal evidence” without experience. Sure 250 x16 is the same as 500x8 on paper. 200mg is a high-end but common TRT/HRT dose if you have a good MD. At this dose no one bulks up. As you correctly stated 250mg of Cyp or Enan is really only around 170ish mg’s of Test. How often would you inject. If you divide that in half and do 125mg of Test twice a week you are only getting 85ish mg’s of Test per shot which is not supra-physiological. If you shoot 250mg just once a week sure for those first three or four days you will be above normal levels but then you get back to a more normal level.

You will not gain 20 or even 10lbs of muscle at 250mg a week regardless of how many weeks you run it, you just won’t.

Logic and critical thinking are great. There are so many monday morning armchair quarterbacks. However, in this case, defer to direct experience. If you want to feel more manly sure 250mg a week will help. If you aspire to actually gain 10-20lbs you will need more than 250mg a week.

You only get to do a first cycle once. If you start with 250, you WILL end up wishing you had done 500.

I started my first cycle at 250/wk TestE, but nothing much happened until I bumped it to 500. By that time I was half way through. I was able to get enough extra gear to keep it at that level until the end, but I wish I had started at 500 and stayed at 500.

why do you guys worry so much about how fast you bounce back, most of you guys are using the stasis taper, so just run it a lil longer and it will be fine

[quote]Agon wrote:
why do you guys worry so much about how fast you bounce back, most of you guys are using the stasis taper, so just run it a lil longer and it will be fine[/quote]

Agon, that’s just not the case. Getting your natural levels back ASAP should be your main focus in a AAS cycle.
Unless you are planning on doign TRT for the rest of your life. These guys know what they are saying.

I for instance am at the far far end of the specturm, I am doing my first cycle at TEST Enanthate 900mg/Week 450 Mon & 450 Thurs. My goal of hitting 240 are well within reach. I am in week 5 startng today and I have gone from 213 to 234. Muscle mass gains have been great, and at 5000 calories per day my gains have been quite sound and lean.

As others have said… You only get to do your First Cycle once. Do it right bro!! I am so glad that I listened to World1187’s words. I imagine I can get to 247-250 then cut to a super lean 240 at aroudn 10-11% BFat.

All of these people are trying to help you. It’s sound advice.

Check ou tmy thread “First Cycle Diet” and you can see what it’s done for me.

2 things to remember, train hard and eat harder.

[quote]Randizo wrote:
Agon wrote:
why do you guys worry so much about how fast you bounce back, most of you guys are using the stasis taper, so just run it a lil longer and it will be fine

Agon, that’s just not the case. Getting your natural levels back ASAP should be your main focus in a AAS cycle.
Unless you are planning on doign TRT for the rest of your life. These guys know what they are saying.

I for instance am at the far far end of the specturm, I am doing my first cycle at TEST Enanthate 900mg/Week 450 Mon & 450 Thurs. My goal of hitting 240 are well within reach. I am in week 5 startng today and I have gone from 213 to 234. Muscle mass gains have been great, and at 5000 calories per day my gains have been quite sound and lean.

As others have said… You only get to do your First Cycle once. Do it right bro!! I am so glad that I listened to World1187’s words. I imagine I can get to 247-250 then cut to a super lean 240 at aroudn 10-11% BFat.

All of these people are trying to help you. It’s sound advice.

Check ou tmy thread “First Cycle Diet” and you can see what it’s done for me.

2 things to remember, train hard and eat harder.

[/quote]

900mg of test for first cycle! Do you plan on making this one your last cylce, why rush things?

I would think that there are very few people in the world that just do one cycle.

I also like the idea of a bit higher of a dose like that for a shorter period of time. As long as all the extras are on hand.

[quote]Larry10 wrote:
Umm… haven’t read through all the posts. But…

My buddy, who is already 260 and strong like an ox is on 250mgs of test a week right now, and he’s flying. Put on between 10-15 pounds, AND due to injury he’s stopped the majority of his lower body lifting.

This guy already built himself up to insane strength levels without juice, 700 pound squat and dead, 500 pound bench, in single ply lifting gear.

He’s not the most knowledgable guy when it comes to this stuff, but he may never go over 250mgs, because he just gets too big. If he did a big cycle he’d get up to 300 pounds and just feel like shit.

So, to each his own. It works for him, and I think the general rule is to use the least amount you can make progress with.

Cheers[/quote]

Thank you

PS: that general rule is exactly what Big A says

But that’s also the point a 260lb drug free lifter benching 5 and squating 7 is an exception not the rule.

If your mind is made up with going with 250mg a week then who can talk you out of it.