T Nation

First Cycle, Straight Answers, No BS Please

So, to start I’d like to say that I don’t want any responses judging or telling me I’m doing it wrong because I’ll do it regardless I’m just looking for straight-forward answers to my question.
I have started training recently, I am a fairly tall skinny fat guy currently learning proper form and getting into the grooves of things. Now I know I have not even reached my genetic potential nor have I even maxed out my newbie gains, but I’m intending on doing a cycle to jump start my athletic career and wanted advice on which compounds to take to reach the following state by the end of my cycle.
I want to be bigger, stronger and also leaner, like I said previously I am skinny fat so I’m looking to simultaneously loose a little bit of weight and bulk up significantly and also increase strength significantly.

Holy shit I had to request a new password for this old account just to post a response to your stupid post.
“Skinny fat” ,”learning proper form”, “jump start athletic career”?? Are you on drugs man?
Do NOT take anything thats the straight up no BS. Jesus fucking christs, seriously?


DNP 50mg per kg bodyweight. ez win ez lyf


love it

Newbie gains are steroids. Stop being a dumbass. You can’t ask for straight answers with no bs and avoid the massive flaming you are deservedly receiving. Either fix your form, take a step back, and learn some humility, or just go take whatever the hell you want and leave everyone alone. You’re either a child or you act like one, you will never have an athletic career, and I hope the mods shut this down. I don’t partake in gear, but the people in this subforum who would have guided you had you come in with a different attitude are so outrageously knowledgeable and helpful, you’ll never know what you missed out on.


In all seriousness why would you expect anyone here to give you any pushback about your plan? Answer that honestly. It’s not like there are people sitting here who get off on shitting on people; you seem to clearly understand that what you’re proposing is contrary to what for lack of a better term I’m going to call ‘conventional wisdom’.
How do you think that conventional wisdom was built? It was built by years and years of anecdotal (largley) evidence aquired by people experimenting with their bodies. If these experiences led anyone to belive that the best way to get to where you want to be, essentially newby ------> meathead in a simple 12-16 week cycle don’t you think we’d all be recommending that?
The truth of the matter is this, at your current training level (you provided no real useful information for us to help you other than that), a properly outlined diet and training plan will produce dramatic changes to your body, changes that will rival any cycle (which is why @flappinit says "newbie gains are steriods).


I’ll make you a deal. Give us your stats, your current calorie intake, macro breakdown, and your training regimen, and I’ll play devil’s advocate with cycle advice. Everyone else will do a good enough job flaming you (and you absolutely do deserve it, and you know it), but I will answer your questions as a disinterested third party. Deal?


Of course I know it at no point have I thought it was sensible really.
bf I’d estimate around 20%
6 day split, First 3 days heavy 5x5, next 3 are higher volume lower intensity work, 3x12 for example and not overly heavy
Monday - Chest, Tris
Tuesday - Back, Bis
Wednesday - Shoulders, Legs
Next 3 days repeat
Sunday Rest
Averagely 3000 calories

scratch that probably between 20-25%

Alright, so first thing that pops out is your calories. At your size I’m estimating your maintenance is 3,200-3,400. You’re eating below that right now, which means no muscle growth. Macros look good. I recently started doing 5x5 training, and I’m seeing some improvement a little quicker than I expected, so I’m biased towards saying that’s a good idea.

Here’s what I would say, and I’m trying to be very honest and not make you feel like I’m flaming you: you need to get that bf lower before you start a cycle. Higher bf will cause more aromatization, which means more side effects to fight off while you’re trying to focus on your goals.

You should set two goals for yourself, and when you meet them, start your cycle. There’s a huge psychological component of steroid use, and the best drugs in the world will not trump a lack of discipline, a bad diet, or a failure to make a good plan.

Goal #1: get bf down to sub-20%
Goal #2: after bf is dropped, track every calorie for three weeks, and eat at maintenance

Those two things will set you up for success. You’re not eating enough to grow right now. But that’s ok, because you need to be in a deficit to lose some fat right now. Once you prove to yourself that you can do that you can move on to #2 and prove to yourself that you can eat exactly at maintenance. Those two things, though boring, will help you know if you’re ready to start a cycle. If you start now, without a proper base of diet, with higher than ideal bf, and without a lot of existing muscle, you’re setting yourself up for failure, injuries, and possibly some nasty side effects. You are a free man and may make your own choices. But before you do anything you should force yourself to meet those goals, then reward yourself by doing whatever you want to do. Again, boring, but discipline is the key to success in basically everything in life.

no fuck that he should just go for 800mg TrenAce a week + 800mg TestE for 15 weeks with a halo kickstart.

I noticed you didn’t post your age…

You have no idea how much I wanted to say something to that effect. But I figured at this point it’s about harm reduction. Plus you guys are all funnier than I am.

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Thanks for taking to the time to respond to my dumbass, I’ll give this a go and who knows by the end of getting the fat down I may scrap the idea altogether (unlikely). Also, very concerned with HPTA shutdown and potentially not fully recovering after the after the cycle as I am fairly young, what are the risks to my endocrine system from maybe, a simple test e only cycle, and what advice might you have?

So herein is the reason we (the royal we) advise against running a cycle at a younger age and/or before you’re ready. It’s an asymmetric risk. You know the upside (which has limits)—bigger, stronger, etc—but you don’t know the limits of the downside. You could run a cycle, run proper pct, and have no lasting effects to your endocrine system. Or you could do everything right and never fully recover, and have problems for the rest of your life. Hence the reason guys on here are busting your balls. I’m kind of a personal agency absolutist, meaning I will ultimately defer to an individual to do with their body what they see fit, even if I think it’s risky or harmful.

What you need to think about before you do anything is “what’s the worst case scenario?” and then ask yourself if you can live with that result. If you wreck your HPTA at age whatever you are (20?) can you handle not being able to have sex without the use of testosterone the rest of your life? If you get horrible gyno can you handle the possibility of having surgery to remove your new boobs? Sure, most of the time those consequences are not the norm. But they could be for you. One of those worst case scenarios could be your reality. You don’t know until you’re in the middle of it.


@iron_yuppie I really enjoy your posts. Super thoughtful.

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You want straight answers? Download and read:

Underground Steroid Handbook II by Dan Ducchaine
Anabolics by William Llewellyn
Steroid Bible by Steve Gallaway

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Lol @ someone asking for “straight answers” while also specifically asking not to be flamed because they know what they’re doing is dumb.



You’re too kind. But thank you. Truly.

I was REALLY hoping someone will write this and I won’t have to do it myself…
Because of this kind of things juice get the lousy reputation