T Nation

First Cycle Side Effects

So this wednesday it will be week 3. I started a cycle, being a tri blend of masteron, trenbolone and testosterone, all enanthate esters. Dosed at 100mg each per ml.

Now into into week 3 I am having itching, at rest, it is not so bad and bearable, but I can’t lift weights as soon as I lift weights and start heating up the itching intensifies unbearably, for the past 4 days I have not been able to lift.

Now normally in the summer I have to take anti-histamines 24/7 because I get this itching which wont go away, but during the winter its normally fine, except right now. Its come back but I have it at rest too, I saw the doc today and got prescribed fexofenadine - the only histamine which consistently works for me on a regular basis, if this doesn’t work I will drop the cycle and pct.

Now I was wondering if I have maybe done any permanent damage, I don’t want to sit with this condition all day every day, I think I have hives ( urticaria - sport induced ) but I never break out, i just get bad itching under my skin, its the worse feeling in the world and I wouldn’t even wish it upon the types of people I hated the most.

Now if I get my fexofenadine tomorrow and itching goes away should I carry on with the cycle ? I really want to, if it doesn’t go away within a few days then Ill drop the cycle and hope everything clears up.

Is 3 weeks really enough to start seeing sides form tren at only 200mgs a week? And it being an ester?

Hell of a first cycle

[quote]BUDs wrote:
Hell of a first cycle [/quote]

So options are to skip the pin this wednesday in favor of the fexofenadine, if it goes away by saturday ill pin again then, if not ill drop the whole cycle, give a blood donation asap and then just keep at lifting weight w/o chemical assistance, and maybe try just test instead in a year or so, like I should have done in the first place. I know some research just deliberately chose to ignore it, guess this is what you get.

I don’t know man I’ve never heard that happening before, if it were me I would stop the cycle.

it sounds like the cycle is somehow impacting your cortisol production. I think this can occur due to the heightened metabolism (thyroid hormones) requiring more cortisol to do its work (your body actually releases more cortisol to clear out the thyroid hormones, technically). But you do not appear to have enough to cover both needs, hence the hives.

The medicine will PROBABLY help out with that, but those are not good to take for a long time. If you cannot manage without the medicine, I would recommend you to stop the cycle as well. There are a lot of hormone disorders that can make your life miserable, but hypoadrenia has an especially nasty side effect known as death.

side effect known as death, lol. Balla you got a way with words man.

maybe its making your body hotter and sweat more. And causing something similar to a heat rash. Thats what comes to mind to me since it happens in the summer alot. If you do another cycle if i were you I would just do test p and if it happens again than just stop and know roids arent for you!

Its not worth carrying on this cycle. Going to drop it. Thanks for your input Balla

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
it sounds like the cycle is somehow impacting your cortisol production. I think this can occur due to the heightened metabolism (thyroid hormones) requiring more cortisol to do its work (your body actually releases more cortisol to clear out the thyroid hormones, technically). But you do not appear to have enough to cover both needs, hence the hives.

The medicine will PROBABLY help out with that, but those are not good to take for a long time. If you cannot manage without the medicine, I would recommend you to stop the cycle as well. There are a lot of hormone disorders that can make your life miserable, but hypoadrenia has an especially nasty side effect known as death.[/quote]

Just come to think of it, this might be relevant, but I have also been using a corticosteroid nasal spray to clear up some chronic rhinitis, reckon this make things worse? Also all steroids would cause my cortisol to go up, so therefore any gear I may run in the future would cause the same to happen? If it is cortisol thats the problem here?

I was also under the impression that AAS suppressed your thyroid to some extent, especially trenbolone.

Just to clear up, are you saying that I have too much cortisol or too little, or too much thyroid hormones or too little.

Lastly, I don’t think an anti histamine would really help if it is a cortisol problem right? Since they are two different hormones.

EDIT: Added some new points.

[quote]Mad -scientist wrote:
maybe its making your body hotter and sweat more. And causing something similar to a heat rash. Thats what comes to mind to me since it happens in the summer alot. If you do another cycle if i were you I would just do test p and if it happens again than just stop and know roids arent for you!
[/quote]

Its a lot better today with the fexofenadine, going to see if I can manage it with half the dose, if not then ill drop the cycle. and then do test P in the future, if the same happens then ill just have to stay away from the juice!

[quote]Gcortese wrote:

Just come to think of it, this might be relevant, but I have also been using a corticosteroid nasal spray to clear up some chronic rhinitis, reckon this make things worse? Also all steroids would cause my cortisol to go up, so therefore any gear I may run in the future would cause the same to happen? If it is cortisol thats the problem here?

I was also under the impression that AAS suppressed your thyroid to some extent, especially trenbolone.

Just to clear up, are you saying that I have too much cortisol or too little, or too much thyroid hormones or too little.

Lastly, I don’t think an anti histamine would really help if it is a cortisol problem right? Since they are two different hormones.

EDIT: Added some new points.[/quote]

Now this is getting interesting.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that AAS increased your thyroid hormones due to the uptake in protein synthesis–your thyroid hormones would have to contribute to that somehow.

Yes, a low dose cortico-steroid used long term can have the effect of shutting down your natural cortisol production, while not offering enough replacement (just like exogenous testosterone). So you are left with your body requiring more cortisol to counter the stressors (be it natural, unnatural, or as a result of thyroid demand) but your body is unable to provide it. This is why people with diseases like Chron’s, MS, and lupus have to take such a high amount of the drug. Unfortunately that also has some nasty side effects of its own.

Are you stressed easily? Bad situation at work or home? If you can get a handle on those stressors your body can begin to heal and you may not need the cortico-steroid. This is assuming your symptoms are a result of things you can control, and not an inherent primary medical issue.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]Gcortese wrote:

Just come to think of it, this might be relevant, but I have also been using a corticosteroid nasal spray to clear up some chronic rhinitis, reckon this make things worse? Also all steroids would cause my cortisol to go up, so therefore any gear I may run in the future would cause the same to happen? If it is cortisol thats the problem here?

I was also under the impression that AAS suppressed your thyroid to some extent, especially trenbolone.

Just to clear up, are you saying that I have too much cortisol or too little, or too much thyroid hormones or too little.

Lastly, I don’t think an anti histamine would really help if it is a cortisol problem right? Since they are two different hormones.

EDIT: Added some new points.[/quote]

Now this is getting interesting.

I may be wrong, but I was under the impression that AAS increased your thyroid hormones due to the uptake in protein synthesis–your thyroid hormones would have to contribute to that somehow.

Yes, a low dose cortico-steroid used long term can have the effect of shutting down your natural cortisol production, while not offering enough replacement (just like exogenous testosterone). So you are left with your body requiring more cortisol to counter the stressors (be it natural, unnatural, or as a result of thyroid demand) but your body is unable to provide it. This is why people with diseases like Chron’s, MS, and lupus have to take such a high amount of the drug. Unfortunately that also has some nasty side effects of its own.

Are you stressed easily? Bad situation at work or home? If you can get a handle on those stressors your body can begin to heal and you may not need the cortico-steroid. This is assuming your symptoms are a result of things you can control, and not an inherent primary medical issue.

[/quote]

The cortico-steorid nasal spray is only for rhinitis - my nasal passage swells up and its much harder to breathe through my mouth than nose, so it becomes second nature breathing through my mouth. I only recently got given the nose spray about 2 weeks ago, and before that I hadn’t used one for 2 years because I didn’t really care about it. I can much rather go with the chronic rhinitis than the itching.

I believe its more of a heat rash thing because it just gets that much worse when doen exercise, today its been non existent at rest since using the fexofenadine. Im going to half the dosage and see what happens. I have read in places that trenbolone increases body tempreture? This could be of significant contribution no?

I also have anavar, which I was going to finish on, but I can run that for 2/3 weeks once the itching has stopped to wait for the enanthates to clear and then go back to pinning half a dose, and see if that has causes it again.

Also i am very relaxed and hardly ever stressed.

Just something to note.

For your first cycle, you are dealing with 3 VERY strong compounds. I personally would never advise someone to use tren for their first cycle.

I would almost always advise test only, or test and possibly one other compound. You need to see how you react to different things. IE some guys can take 2 grams a week of test and have no sides. Other guys run 500mgs a week and have a ton of issues.

Your early in the cycle, I hope you can get it turned around. I would still suggest dropping the tren and mast and just running a larger dose of test, it may solve your problem. Good luck with it.

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
Just something to note.

For your first cycle, you are dealing with 3 VERY strong compounds. I personally would never advise someone to use tren for their first cycle.

I would almost always advise test only, or test and possibly one other compound. You need to see how you react to different things. IE some guys can take 2 grams a week of test and have no sides. Other guys run 500mgs a week and have a ton of issues.

Your early in the cycle, I hope you can get it turned around. I would still suggest dropping the tren and mast and just running a larger dose of test, it may solve your problem. Good luck with it. [/quote]

Thanks for your input, thats what I want to do, but the whole thing is a blend, so I would have to drop it all and just buy test e. Which is fine and doable. I have enough anavar for 4 weeks at a reasonable dose, would you think it reckless to run 4 weeks of that as soon as the itching stops to see if its my body disagreeing with gear, just spoke to my source and he says that people who use blends get affected differently compared to just taking the stuff individually - not sure how much truth that holds tbh.

Yes, I would drop the blend and just buy test e. Sucks, but it’s where you are at.

4 weeks of anavar is not going to do jack shit and oral only cycles are always a bad idea.

[quote]Monopoly19 wrote:
Yes, I would drop the blend and just buy test e. Sucks, but it’s where you are at.

4 weeks of anavar is not going to do jack shit and oral only cycles are always a bad idea. [/quote]

I know I just wanted to see if the itching was related to gear in generally ( see vtballas posts above ) since the var was the only other steroid I have - was going to use it to finish up.

Will get the test instead and probably stick to that for a very long time!

Is it possible I am allergic to the oil and not the actual compounds? How long does the oil typically take to get out of the system? I know for a fact that my gear has EO in it.

Someone please tell me you can get gear without EO in, and does EO therefore stay in the body the same amount of time the ester would?

A lot of people seem to be sensitive to EO, but it usually is just a lot of pain and redness around the injection site and not all in the body. The oil actually doesn’t make it into your bloodstream, I don’t think, as it is broken down and metabolized in the muscle tissue. So it wouldn’t make sense that you would have a reaction elsewhere if that were the case.

As far as the life of the oil, it is much shorter than the ester. The oil is just the delivery mechanism, once it goes away you are left with the ester and compound, and as the ester is cleaved away you are left with just the compound in your blood stream.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
A lot of people seem to be sensitive to EO, but it usually is just a lot of pain and redness around the injection site and not all in the body. The oil actually doesn’t make it into your bloodstream, I don’t think, as it is broken down and metabolized in the muscle tissue. So it wouldn’t make sense that you would have a reaction elsewhere if that were the case.

As far as the life of the oil, it is much shorter than the ester. The oil is just the delivery mechanism, once it goes away you are left with the ester and compound, and as the ester is cleaved away you are left with just the compound in your blood stream.[/quote]

Thank you. This narrows it down to the cortisol issue or I simply cannot run tren / masteron. Will be getting test prop without EO in it soon, if I feel the same on test prop then its most probably a cortisol issue if not then its the Tren / mast. More likey tren because there is a reason its not made for human consumption, or its because its the combination of tren and mast.

Honestly, I hope you are so wrong about the cortisol issue, since that would mean I can’t run gear, ever.

Balla, since I know you have a lot more knowledge than me, do you have any idea what else it could be? I mean, its shooting in the dark but just interested in some possible alternate ideas.

Managed to train today, full workout, was bearable with the itching. Should hopefully be gone in the next 2-3 days.

Thanks for your time Balla.