T Nation

First Cycle Questions

Pharma
#1

So I am 24, thinking strongly about doing my first cycle. Been training on and off for about 8 years while I played soccer and did muay thai. The sticky for newbies is my plan.

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-12 Adex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)

W 1-12 Nolva 20mg/d if gyno symptoms (itchy/tender nipples) start to show
W 3-10 HCG 250iu 3x/w if you want to prevent your nuts from shrinking and make recovery easier

For PCT I am confused what this part means.

W 13 Nolva 20mg 2x/d or Clomid 50mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolva 20mg/d or Clomid 25mg/d

PCT Option 2 (Test Stasis and Taper)
W 10-12 Off (if your cycle was enth 2 weeks is enough to drop down to normal levels)

For option 2, does it mean that you just stop after week 10?

Plan on doing push/pull/leg split some bodybuilding/high rep exercises and also doing some form of cardio for at least 10 minutes a day and longer on the weekends when I won’t be in the gym (hiking/bike riding). My hopes are to End up at 200 lbs while appearing leaner. I am 185 now, 6’1.

Some other questions I have are…Have any of you experienced any hair loss on the head? I do battle with depression sometimes (I’d say once every few weeks I will feel pretty bad for that a day or 2) what experiences have you had with issues like that? Thanks.

Any advice/critique is welcome. Thanks.

#2

I guess I should mention I average about 3800-4200 calories a day and I work out 4 days a week doing an upper/lower split.

#3

Don’t run nolva on cycle, you are already running an AI. If you start to get tender up the adex dosage.

PCT you can either take Nolva with Clomid or take them seperately.
Together you are looking at:
Clomid 100 100 50 50 Nolva 40 40 20 20

Lots of people on here will tell you run Nolva only because Clomid could make you moody and emotional. Also depending on who you ask they will advise with extending your PCT to 6 weeks.

Personally I’m running Nolva only for 6 weeks as PCT. Starting first 2 weeks at 40/ed then going to 20/ed for last 4 weeks.

Just saw your depression thing—

I suffer/suffered from extreme depression. I was on 40mg of Lexapro a day for a better part of a year. I started my cycle and I have never felt better in my life. I dropped my anti depresant cold turkey (horrible idea, withdrawal is crazy bad) before cycle but like I said I have never felt better…

#4

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Don’t run nolva on cycle, you are already running an AI. If you start to get tender up the adex dosage.

PCT you can either take Nolva with Clomid or take them seperately.
Together you are looking at:
Clomid 100 100 50 50 Nolva 40 40 20 20

Lots of people on here will tell you run Nolva only because Clomid could make you moody and emotional. Also depending on who you ask they will advise with extending your PCT to 6 weeks.

Personally I’m running Nolva only for 6 weeks as PCT. Starting first 2 weeks at 40/ed then going to 20/ed for last 4 weeks.

Just saw your depression thing—

I suffer/suffered from extreme depression. I was on 40mg of Lexapro a day for a better part of a year. I started my cycle and I have never felt better in my life. I dropped my anti depresant cold turkey (horrible idea, withdrawal is crazy bad) before cycle but like I said I have never felt better…

[/quote]

So what’s your plan when you cycle off?

#5

If that is what you look like after 8 years of training, I doubt you will get sustainable results from gear. Your training and diet need to be fixed first.

This is the only advice I can give you that will benefit you in the long run. If you feel like throwing a hissy fit, save it cos I can simply put you on ignore. If you would like to talk training and diet, you will get all the help you need from everyone here.

#6

[quote]KountKoma wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Don’t run nolva on cycle, you are already running an AI. If you start to get tender up the adex dosage.

PCT you can either take Nolva with Clomid or take them seperately.
Together you are looking at:
Clomid 100 100 50 50 Nolva 40 40 20 20

Lots of people on here will tell you run Nolva only because Clomid could make you moody and emotional. Also depending on who you ask they will advise with extending your PCT to 6 weeks.

Personally I’m running Nolva only for 6 weeks as PCT. Starting first 2 weeks at 40/ed then going to 20/ed for last 4 weeks.

Just saw your depression thing—

I suffer/suffered from extreme depression. I was on 40mg of Lexapro a day for a better part of a year. I started my cycle and I have never felt better in my life. I dropped my anti depresant cold turkey (horrible idea, withdrawal is crazy bad) before cycle but like I said I have never felt better…

[/quote]

So what’s your plan when you cycle off?[/quote]

I was off lexa 8 months before I started cycling. Gear just made me feel even better than the good I already felt. We will see how I will feel off cycle, but I am not too concerned.

OP - really helps to have people you can count on/support you. Parents, friends, wife, girlfriend, etc.

#7

I’m not here to argue with anyone. As mentioned I did lots of cardio activities while I was lifting. I literally have ever hour of the day booked, I get 45 mins to train a day during week and little more on weekends. I just want to give myself a kick I know lots of guys who have done them as early as 17. Any advice u want to give is fine I’m not going to throw a hissy fit.

#8

I also eat a plant based diet. Please save the lecture because that’s not something I’m giving up, I simply feel better overall eating that way, as mentioned I still take in about 4000 calories a day

#9

[quote]guitarhero wrote:
I also eat a plant based diet. Please save the lecture because that’s not something I’m giving up, I simply feel better overall eating that way, as mentioned I still take in about 4000 calories a day[/quote]

So are you trying to use that as an excuse or just wanting people to know?

#10

[quote]dt79 wrote:
If that is what you look like after 8 years of training, I doubt you will get sustainable results from gear. Your training and diet need to be fixed first.

This is the only advice I can give you that will benefit you in the long run. If you feel like throwing a hissy fit, save it cos I can simply put you on ignore. If you would like to talk training and diet, you will get all the help you need from everyone here.[/quote]
Its your body, and you have the right to do what you want. But I strongly agree with dt79, no offense but it doesn’t look as you lift. Certainly not for 8 years. One can do a lot in 45 minutes, regardless of goals.

#11

[quote]jzy50309 wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
If that is what you look like after 8 years of training, I doubt you will get sustainable results from gear. Your training and diet need to be fixed first.

This is the only advice I can give you that will benefit you in the long run. If you feel like throwing a hissy fit, save it cos I can simply put you on ignore. If you would like to talk training and diet, you will get all the help you need from everyone here.[/quote]
Its your body, and you have the right to do what you want. But I strongly agree with dt79, no offense but it doesn’t look as you lift. Certainly not for 8 years. One can do a lot in 45 minutes, regardless of goals. [/quote]

haha another “doesn’t look like you lift” this time from a guy smaller and in worse shape than who he’s criticizing.

#12

He did mention ON and OFF for 8 years.

OP read my first response should be somewhat helpful.

#13

I’m just throwing the diet thing out there so that it’s out of the way…People will surely be curious.

Thanks nooberific.

The guy I’m getting them off is suggesting me to take test sust instead of E at 250 for 10 weeks and the adex until 2 weeks after test is done and then I should be good. He deals with quite a few people and some big guys on very high dosages (he claims one guy is on 1.0 test a week plus 3 or 4 other things) and most of them do not even take any pct unless they notice for sure they are showing sides. Thoughts?

#14

[quote]guitarhero wrote:
I also eat a plant based diet. Please save the lecture because that’s not something I’m giving up, I simply feel better overall eating that way, as mentioned I still take in about 4000 calories a day[/quote]

I’m not gonna lecture. How you choice to live is your choice. All I’m going to say is the results you currently have are directly related to your diet and your chosen lifestyle. If you want to build an appreciable amount of muscle, some tradeoffs have to be made.

You will not benefit from a cycle if you are not willing to do that. You will also incur unnecessary risks that will not be worth the results.

#15

What are these unncecessary risks?

#16

[quote]joyfull wrote:

[quote]jzy50309 wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
If that is what you look like after 8 years of training, I doubt you will get sustainable results from gear. Your training and diet need to be fixed first.

This is the only advice I can give you that will benefit you in the long run. If you feel like throwing a hissy fit, save it cos I can simply put you on ignore. If you would like to talk training and diet, you will get all the help you need from everyone here.[/quote]
Its your body, and you have the right to do what you want. But I strongly agree with dt79, no offense but it doesn’t look as you lift. Certainly not for 8 years. One can do a lot in 45 minutes, regardless of goals. [/quote]

haha another “doesn’t look like you lift” this time from a guy smaller and in worse shape than who he’s criticizing.[/quote]
Define worse shape? I currently run a mile and half in under 9 minutes. Being 170lbs at 5’6 and relatively lean doesn’t qualify as small, but this is all besides the point. I am just recommending he re-evaluate his plan of utilizing AAS.

#17

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]guitarhero wrote:
I also eat a plant based diet. Please save the lecture because that’s not something I’m giving up, I simply feel better overall eating that way, as mentioned I still take in about 4000 calories a day[/quote]

I’m not gonna lecture. How you choice to live is your choice. All I’m going to say is the results you currently have are directly related to your diet and your chosen lifestyle. If you want to build an appreciable amount of muscle, some tradeoffs have to be made.

You will not benefit from a cycle if you are not willing to do that. You will also incur unnecessary risks that will not be worth the results.[/quote]

this is it, essentially.

OP, if you are going to go through the risks (and there are some pretty serious risks) of using these drugs, it makes sense to be in a position where you can make the most out of them, that way the risk:reward is favourable.

As it stands just now, your lifestyle is such that you won’t get the most out of a cycle, and you’ll likely keep very little muscle once PCT is done and dusted.

#18

[quote]jzy50309 wrote:

[quote]joyfull wrote:

[quote]jzy50309 wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:
If that is what you look like after 8 years of training, I doubt you will get sustainable results from gear. Your training and diet need to be fixed first.

This is the only advice I can give you that will benefit you in the long run. If you feel like throwing a hissy fit, save it cos I can simply put you on ignore. If you would like to talk training and diet, you will get all the help you need from everyone here.[/quote]
Its your body, and you have the right to do what you want. But I strongly agree with dt79, no offense but it doesn’t look as you lift. Certainly not for 8 years. One can do a lot in 45 minutes, regardless of goals. [/quote]

haha another “doesn’t look like you lift” this time from a guy smaller and in worse shape than who he’s criticizing.[/quote]
Define worse shape? I currently run a mile and half in under 9 minutes. Being 170lbs at 5’6 and relatively lean doesn’t qualify as small, but this is all besides the point. I am just recommending he re-evaluate his plan of utilizing AAS. [/quote]

Lol no one cares how fast you run just saying

#19

[quote]guitarhero wrote:
What are these unncecessary risks?[/quote]

I’ll give you some brief points so you can google them. You should do your research yourself.

They include, but are not limited to:

  1. Effects of suppressing/shutting down your HPTA through the use of exogenous hormones.

  2. Side effects of excess/uncontrolled estrogen. E.g gyno, erectile dysfunction etc.

  3. Possible effects on brain chemicals/ neurotransmitters such as dopamine. Relevant because of your history of depression.

When you decide to cycle, you must accept these risks. Therefore, you must ensure you will get sufficent rewards out of your cycle.

#20

[quote]dt79 wrote:

[quote]guitarhero wrote:
What are these unncecessary risks?[/quote]

I’ll give you some brief points so you can google them. You should do your research yourself.

They include, but are not limited to:

  1. Effects of suppressing/shutting down your HPTA through the use of exogenous hormones.

  2. Side effects of excess/uncontrolled estrogen. E.g gyno, erectile dysfunction etc.

  3. Possible effects on brain chemicals/ neurotransmitters such as dopamine. Relevant because of your history of depression.

When you decide to cycle, you must accept these risks. Therefore, you must ensure you will get sufficent rewards out of your cycle. [/quote]

which is exactly why it’s not worth it for you op. You’re going to cycle and go from looking like you lifted for 2 weeks to going like you lifted for 4 months. Do you have any interest in doing anything like modeling, competing, anything???