T Nation

First Cycle Questions

So im about to start a 4 week Anadrol stack with 8-12 weeks of test E and i have a couple question. From reading a ton of previous posts im confused by what seems to be a lot of contradicting posts. I have read up on this, so dont flame me for posting please…

From what i’ve read, this stack shouldnt cause problems of gyno, however, some people suggest Novadex or something of the sort anyway, is this necessary? whats the truth??

Secondly, should i wait till im two weeks into my test cycle to start adrol?? Or will the combo kickstart them right away?

Thirdly, adrol gains are supposed to go away right away, however, the continued test is going to help drastically with this problem. Is this true? Also, i heard that using a NO2 product after will also help, is this just a myth?

Im not too worried about water weight being gained, as im bulking and it doesnt suggest a real problem. however, ive heard lowering my sodium uptake is an easy and practical way to help this problem… is this true??

Finally, is there anything real obvious that is wrong with this above cycle. A PCT will obviously be taken when i come off the test e, but i dont not plan on adding anything else to this stack unless it is necessary as this is already quite costly. The test e will be injected to avoid taking two orals.

Anyway… i look forward to all you posts. Thanks a ton

Stats

But good call on injecting the Test E. Drinking it or taking it rectally is less fun.

So no stats, no lifts, no numbers as to your cycle, no sign of research, and very little sign of intelligence. I’m sure you will find a lot of help.

I’m thinking you’re either a) a troll or b) someone who needs to do a lot more research before they hurt themselves. I also think that if you are asking these kind of questions you should be in the beginners section learning about lifting and eating properly before ever worrying about AAS.

my two cents…

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
Stats

But good call on injecting the Test E. Drinking it or taking it rectally is less fun. [/quote]

Holy shit, I didn’t even see that part. Brilliant.

[quote]fireflyz wrote:
So no stats, no lifts, no numbers as to your cycle, no sign of research, and very little sign of intelligence. I’m sure you will find a lot of help.

I’m thinking you’re either a) a troll or b) someone who needs to do a lot more research before they hurt themselves. I also think that if you are asking these kind of questions you should be in the beginners section learning about lifting and eating properly before ever worrying about AAS.

my two cents…[/quote]

Give him a chance. His post isn’t nearly as bad as some who come stumbling in here without the slightest clue. Not saying you are wrong, but it’s a bit soon to throw “troll” around, and I like calling people trolls.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh. Simmonds, what are your plans for AI and dosage? As well as Nolva PCT plans? On 10+ weeks of Test E, gyno is a possibility. Many have run that with no problems, but if it’s your first cycle you won’t know if your prone to it or not.

ok… sorry my post wasnt as indepth as it should have been. Ive got a mentor that is familar and hase used these products, so we’ve already determined that im ready for it, hence my lack of stats i guess. either way, ill fill you guys in.

Im 6’ 3", and 215 pds with roughly 8% bodyfat. Ive worked out hard for about 3 years, and im using this stack to help with my sports aswell as hopefully work past some nagging sports injuries. Ive had these injuries looked at by professionals, and have been lifting fine with them, so im not concerned about injuring myself.

As far as diet goes, im a student at University and will be holding a simple summer job, so eating is all i do in my spare time other than hitting the actual gym. Im deadlifting sets of 405, bench 225, and squat 315. Yes i realize that im not at my natural potential, but ive worked hard and waited till i feel ready for this.

The cycle as i understand it, will consist of the following.

500 mg of test e/cyp per week
100 mg of Adrol per day
my pct will consist of novadex and aramoza(spelling?)
and if i encounted gyno ill use letrozole.

From my friend, i already have second hand experience of what to expect, and how to use this cycle. My questions from the first post are basically some simple questions that i hoped to bounce off you guys to get some second opinions.

Thanks again guys, hopefully this will give you enough to answer my questions. im not looking for indepth answers so much as straightening out, because i have read mixed answers on previous posts.

Man Bonez is going to grow up to be one angry vet. Might I add, no sign of PCT protocol.

[quote]Growing_Boy wrote:
Man Bonez is going to grow up to be one angry vet. Might I add, no sign of PCT protocol. [/quote]

Lol naa the internet doesn’t affect me emotionally. Anger isn’t “my thing”. Except when people are doing 50 in the left lane on their phone those people are dead to me…

You should use an AI (like Adex or Letro) during cycle to maintain low normal male E2 level to minimize bloating, maximize libido, eliminate the risk of gyno or even sensitive nipples, maintain good morale, etc. Adex at 0.25mg/d adjusted up or down according to how you individually respond would be a good place to start. Gauge Adex dose by:

Increase dose if: High E2 symptoms present (bloating, emotional, sensitive nipples, poor libido)

Decrease dose if: Low E2 symptoms present (Achy joints, poor libido, mental fogginess, poor morale, overall cranky)

Maintain dose if: Good libido, no bloating to speak of, mental clarity, good morale.

Changes in dose typically take about 6 days to be felt due to half life.

Why don’t you lay out planned weeks for each compound and PCT (and dosages) so we can critique.

Ok… ive received my stuff in the mail and i’ve now got about 3 weeks to straighten my cycle out before i get started. Here’s some numbers so you guys can critique me, as well as some questions afterwards.

10 weeks Test cyp at 500mg a week
33 days of Anadrol, 75 mg a day.
.25 mg a day of nolvadex throught my cycle.

Ill be starting the adrol and test together at the beginning of this cycle. The adrol comes in pills of 25 mg, so i was thinking of taking one in the morning, and two a hour or so before my workout. Does this sound correct? Also, does one weekly injection of test work best, or should i do two injections a week?

Secondly, the nolvadex is for potential gyno problems as well as pct. however, ive heard that nolvadex throughout my cycle my possibly cause a slight loss of gains, so is it ok to wait and see if i get any undesirable side effects before beginning? Also, beginners question here, will novadex usage during my cycle decrease its ability to get my natural test production going again PC?

Thanks a lot for your comments.

I want to say that im still a little unsure as to what exactly will be best for me, novadex, anastrozole, or lentrozole. So id appreciate a suggestion as to which product would be best for myself

I think you got anastrozole and tamoxifen (nolva) mixed up. The recommendation was anastrozole (aka adex) 0.25mg per day. Nolva use right thru will not decrease its effectiveness during PCT, nor would it hinder gains. Anastrozole use may result slight loss of gains, but its well worth it. Since you already have aromasin (or just avaliable to you?) There is no point to use anastrozole. Adex, letro, aromasin are all anti-aromatising agents, just pick one.
Do a little more research mate.

If you do not have acess to any AI, you can use nolvadex everyday during your cycle to block excessive estrogen binding to certain receptors.
If you have AI, do not use nolvadex during cycle. Use adex 0.25mg/day, or araomasin 12.5mg per day. They are just ball park figures.

For steady serum level, go with 2x/w test cyp. An AI (Adex, Letro, Aromasin) is preferable to a SERM on cycle. SERM (Nolva) is for post cycle. You will need a higher dose of AI while doing both Anadrol & test cyp; then you can taper down by about 1/2 after anadrol run is done.

I’m still a little leery of your knowledge on AAS. You don’t seem to be grasping the difference between a SERM and an AI. Read the stickies, they will help fill that gap. Also, why 10 week cycle instead of 8? Are you planning on frontloading?

I know you say you have a mentor, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. If it were MY body that I was playing around with using AAS I would sure as hell want to make sure that I KNEW what I was putting into my body, in what dosages, at what times, and for what purposes.

You seem like you genuinely want to do things right which I respect, but I think you need to do some research for yourself and maybe that will resolve some of your simpler questions. More than likely you will be able to come back with some more indepth questions concerning your newfound knowledge.

I just remember the days on this forum where if someone posted without having all thier ducks in a row they would have their asses handed to them and no info given out. You’ve gotten some great replies from some knowledgeable people thogh, so use it to your advantage.

As to your AI question: I prefer Adex as it is easier IMO to play with the dosages to find the right fit for the individual.

[quote]simmonds wrote:
Ok… ive received my stuff in the mail and i’ve now got about 3 weeks to straighten my cycle out before i get started. Here’s some numbers so you guys can critique me, as well as some questions afterwards.

10 weeks Test cyp at 500mg a week
33 days of Anadrol, 75 mg a day.
.25 mg a day of nolvadex throught my cycle.[/quote]

Nolvacex is 1) Not dosed at 0.25mg a day, Arimidex is - 2) Dosed at 20-60mg for estrogen antagonism and lastly 3) NOT what you want to run during your cycle. Choose Arimidex (AKA Adex, AKA Liquidex, AKA Anastrozole)[quote]

Ill be starting the adrol and test together at the beginning of this cycle. The adrol comes in pills of 25 mg, so i was thinking of taking one in the morning, and two a hour or so before my workout. Does this sound correct? Also, does one weekly injection of test work best, or should i do two injections a week?[/quote]

I would be wary of the quality of the drol dosed in 25mg tabs, it comes as 50mg as standard, UGL or not in most cases.
Your test is to be dosed twice a week, equally split at 250mg a shot. You WOULD be better off doing 8 weeks with a frontload, but you seem to have made your mind up… the reason is more time to gain - more time with peak blood levels and less time on so easier recovery.

[quote]
Secondly, the nolvadex is for potential gyno problems as well as pct. however, ive heard that nolvadex throughout my cycle my possibly cause a slight loss of gains, so is it ok to wait and see if i get any undesirable side effects before beginning? [/quote]

If you choose Nolvadex during your cycle then the following will happen; You will build testosterone levels over time with your injections, then as the testosterone level rises the body will try to regain a ‘natural balance’ of male/female hormones and turn some of the test you inject to estrogen - the hormone responsible for breast growth, womanly characteristics, etc.
Using Tamoxifen will make the breast receptors unable to be used by the estrogen from the test so will help to a degree (not 100%) to prevent gynocomastia, but the levels of estrogen will rise and rise regardless.
Then once you stop injecting the testosterone, the body will not be making any testosterone naturally either, and the estrogen will become higher than the testosterone - causing a shift in hormones making your body hold onto feminine characteristics, female weight gain in the arse and hips - gyno, water retention, emotional distress, impotence etc… The nolvadex will NOT stop this, only covers it up temporarily… and the truth is anadrol at 525mg/wk added to 500mg/wk test a week will cause gynocomastia in you even with 80mg of nolvadex a day IMO, without an AI (The 3 AI’s are Letrozole, Arimidex and Aromasin)

The way testosterone is converted into estrogen is by an Enzyme called “Aromatase” - AI’s are drugs called “Aromatase Inhibitors” - they stop this Enzyme doing its job, thus STOPPING the conversion of test to estrogen, making the likelyhood of all the sides listed above a hell of a lot less likely. The three AI’s listed are able to prevent aromatisation by 80% at the least.

Now you choose… Nolvadex or Arimidex?[quote]

Also, beginners question here, will novadex usage during my cycle decrease its ability to get my natural test production going again PC?[/quote]

They are all beginners questions, you ARE a beginner like it or not. As for the last question, the answer is no - but it isnt the best drug for estrogen control whilst on cycle. As i explained.[quote]

Thanks a lot for your comments.[/quote]

Make sure you read and understand the comments and take them on board, you are lucky to have been spoonfed the info above, but i suspected you were fundamentally mistaken in your knowledge and needed an AI-101 post.

Good luck, and dont trust everything a mentor says even if he is big - steroids do different things to different people, and his advice is dated - there are better ways to administer and control AAS these days (the last 10 years).
There are some guys who can build massive physiques on massive doses of aromatisable AAS and not need an AI - but they are a minority. Dont count on that, and even then many of those men would need some estrogen control (not blocking) when adding Anadrol to Testosterone… it is a combo renound for gynocomastia side effects.

Brook