Hahaha! Nice ;o) I’m actually hoping for just that… that my gains on orals (as small as they might be) might give me the taste for more and force me to overcome my ‘pussiness’ ;o) But, for now, I need an easy, simple taste to start the process.
Is that OK with you guys?
So 3 weeks on, 2 weeks off, 3 weeks on, 2 weeks off… that sort of thing? How long could I do that for? I imagine some Nova or Clomid is required at one point?
If im not mistaken Bill Roberts touched on this topic at one time… I would structure it in a 2 on 2 off fashion. there shouldnt be any need of any serms or PCT as you are not on long enough to shutdown. The beauty of this stack is most report feeling gains roll in even in the two weeks off then by the time they stop its time to jump on again. Do 3-4 of these “mini” cycles then take a complete month off. get some LH stimulating supps (Alpha Male, or something more serious) to push levels up even quicker in the off weeks. While your LH sensitivity is up, actual levels of LH are way down. Hence a test/LH booster of the natural kind might be called for. (credit to jsbrook and tone with this too)
Thanks, Game… interesting concept. I’ll definitly look into this. Would the LH supps be taken during each of the two off weeks or only during the one month off period? What would be one of the “more serious” ones you’ve heard of?
Taken during the 2 weeks off. Shit i dont know theres a bajillion of them Alpha Male REZ-V ZMA would prob work good. Trib, etc… just go to to the Biotest store or your local vitamin store and read up. your not lookin for hypertrophy results from it thats what the AAS is for. You will have MINIMAL if any shutdown anyway so these aren’t even needed just an afterthought that they may be good to throw in. not required. Tone ran all his with nothing during off times im pretty sure.
I read that roughly 50% of Androl users experience some kind of gyno. This is somewhat embarrassing to mention but I’m very susceptable to that. I once bought some Centrum Forte multivitamins that actually caused tissue growth under my left nipple! The moment I stopped, it went away. I still have no clue as to how that could have happened. When you say that taking Winstrol with it will help counter some of the side effects, does that include gyno? If I am susceptable to this should I take some Nova just to play it safe or should I not bother due to the short cycles?
I just found a reference to the Bill Roberts stuff stating the following:
Winstrol and deca are a very logical combination because Nandrolone(Deca)is quite effective at the androgen receptor(A/R)while Stanozolol(Winstrol)is effective in non-A/R mediated mechanisms. Furthermore, Stanozolol binds strongly to the progesterone receptor, but is NOT progestogenic,whereas deca behaves like progesterone on the progesterone receptor(activating it). Thus, Winstrol may very well BLOCK the progestogenic effect that can lead to bloating,gyno,and IMPOTENCE(Yes,DECA-DICK fellas.) For any of you guys thinking of doing a deca only cycle, here are your reasons for throwing in the winny. As a side note, Winstrol should also be a part of any Anadrol including cycle,as it shares alot of similarities with deca(exhibiting high progestogenic activity.)
yes it should combat gyno to a point also. Now you see why the old anatrol75 was so great 
you prob dont know what im talking about but im sure you can figure it out. Anadrol has been known to some to be the only thing that will give them gyno. but again your planning two weekers that knocks the risk down to next to nothing. plus if anything little thing at all would start to form its not like you couldnt just ride it out anyway? may sound scary but i donno guess i just dotn take it too seriously.
It’s not like I started growing breasts or anything… but there was definitly some tissue forming under there… and it hurt if there was any pressure put on it. But most of it went away as soon as I stopped (I still feel a bit of it there to this day but there is nothing visible). I guess, worst case, I could always order some Nova down the road if there was anything going on there just to help counteract it. For now, I’d just try without and see how it goes. I’ve been reading that first time users got nice gains with this type of stack though I have yet to see specifics… nice gains meaning 5lbs of mass or 25lbs of mass? :o)
You may need to run some PCT after the last series, but I’m not sure; Game may be right, I’m just used to always having some kind of PCT there lol.
Do you think I would expect to keep the majority of my gains doing this kind of cycle?
[quote]vin_mancini wrote:
Do you think I would expect to keep the majority of my gains doing this kind of cycle?[/quote]
OK, I finally made it over here.
Yes you should keep a great deal of them or at least 2/3 I would guess if done properly in all aspects of training/diet/pct.
Game has outline my thoughts pretty well on this type of supplementation with oral AAS. Also, I like you am quite estro sensitive, and never had a problem with my all time favorite combo of drol/win. In a measured amount of 50 drol, 25 winstrol, twice daily, 8-9 hours apart.
I would say to run two bursts of two on and two off and take a month off at that point. Try this protocol first and evaluate everything, then if it goes well, (which it should), you could run a few of these together, say 3-4 at most, with a good two months off afterwards.
My personal preferance is to keep it at no more than 3 on, 2 off between each without taking a longer extended break. But that’s just me, while I believe the liver damage is much overblown, I would still keep it to just a max of 3 consecutive on periods before giving your liver and body a real break for some time.
As game told you the two work synergistically in a wonderful way, combatting each others evil sides nicely. So while they aren’t synergistic when it comes to class, (both class II), they still do something magic together that most orals don’t, as just described.
The winstrol will keep the anadrol from retaining too much water and help with bloating etc, while at the same time the “wetness” of the drol will keep the winstrol from “drying” out your joints too much. Yet you can still get some of the positives of both of these effects, they’ll just be “regulated” so to speak, and kept from becoming counterproductive on your system.
Anyway, sorry I hadn't noticed this thread enough to check it out, the current overflux of threads has me a bit tired of checking them all out as most, not this one, are a bit out of my interest.
Finally I am grateful to the guys for recommending you shoot your question by me. It’s humbling, and satisfying to be able to be recognized by peers in this way. And I’m glad I could help a bit. So that’s my take anyway. Again, I would stick to a two on/two off twice, then take a good month to two months off and give it another go at that point or later still. You should get great gains which of course would be relative to your style and goals of training strategy.
My only other recomendation would be to keep your carbs in check while on. Not too low, but keep them down to help the winstrol combat the potential for water retention from the drol. It doesn’t take too much to get that going if you start cramming down carbs, so watch that.
These were the final oral only cycles I ran before taking the plunge with injecs, and I had nothing but positive results each time I did this. Never had any BP issues or any sides. Also as Game pointed out, I never took anything during pct, and was just fine. Having said that, it would certainly be ok to take a nice LH stimulating supplement as described by Game and the others to give you a boost during pct. Just realize you'll lose a bit of the "bite" as you drop those later too. But either way you'll do great.
The first off period of two weeks the gains continued, especially the first week when they were just as strong and solid as the “on” period. The second week they kept coming but slightly less pronounced.
Of course if you’re really gyno prone, you SHOULD have some nolva on hand just in case you get any symptoms of it. Or one of the progesterone targeted serms instead, I’ve heard both used succesfully despite what some say of one or the other. DB has an interesting thead right now on the difft options for this other gyno cause. I doubt you will get it, but you never know if you are indeed that sensitive.
Hope this helps, looks like most of the guys put this out there pretty much, but since you sent me the pm, I thought I would post this for you anyway.
good luck,
ToneBone
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
OK, I finally made it over here.
Yes you should keep a great deal of them or at least 2/3 I would guess if done properly in all aspects of training/diet/pct.
Game has outline my thoughts pretty well on this type of supplementation with oral AAS…
ToneBone[/quote]
Hope it was all pretty spot on tone as i basically tried to recall everything i could from your rounds with it. I figured you were probably in the same boat as me where you kinda give up on posts once in awhile when there is suck an influx of uneducated threads. Glad to see you made it over as now he has a much better resource to probe for information on these cycles. Hope all is well.
[quote]Game_over wrote:
InTheZone wrote:
OK, I finally made it over here.
Yes you should keep a great deal of them or at least 2/3 I would guess if done properly in all aspects of training/diet/pct.
Game has outline my thoughts pretty well on this type of supplementation with oral AAS…
ToneBone
Hope it was all pretty spot on tone as i basically tried to recall everything i could from your rounds with it. I figured you were probably in the same boat as me where you kinda give up on posts once in awhile when there is suck an influx of uneducated threads. Glad to see you made it over as now he has a much better resource to probe for information on these cycles. Hope all is well.[/quote]
Yep, it sure was. Yeah, someone said it a while back, that it seems to just be a lull in the atmosphere right now, and it should pass at some point and get more "electric" and interesting to some of us again.
Things couldn't be better, I'll give you a shout via pm some time today for some updated info on what I'm up to.
ToneBone
[quote]InTheZone wrote:
vin_mancini wrote:
Do you think I would expect to keep the majority of my gains doing this kind of cycle?
OK, I finally made it over here.
Yes you should keep a great deal of them or at least 2/3 I would guess if done properly in all aspects of training/diet/pct.
Game has outline my thoughts pretty well on this type of supplementation with oral AAS. Also, I like you am quite estro sensitive, and never had a problem with my all time favorite combo of drol/win. In a measured amount of 50 drol, 25 winstrol, twice daily, 8-9 hours apart.
I would say to run two bursts of two on and two off and take a month off at that point. Try this protocol first and evaluate everything, then if it goes well, (which it should), you could run a few of these together, say 3-4 at most, with a good two months off afterwards.
My personal preferance is to keep it at no more than 3 on, 2 off between each without taking a longer extended break. But that’s just me, while I believe the liver damage is much overblown, I would still keep it to just a max of 3 consecutive on periods before giving your liver and body a real break for some time.
As game told you the two work synergistically in a wonderful way, combatting each others evil sides nicely. So while they aren’t synergistic when it comes to class, (both class II), they still do something magic together that most orals don’t, as just described.
The winstrol will keep the anadrol from retaining too much water and help with bloating etc, while at the same time the “wetness” of the drol will keep the winstrol from “drying” out your joints too much. Yet you can still get some of the positives of both of these effects, they’ll just be “regulated” so to speak, and kept from becoming counterproductive on your system.
Anyway, sorry I hadn't noticed this thread enough to check it out, the current overflux of threads has me a bit tired of checking them all out as most, not this one, are a bit out of my interest.
Finally I am grateful to the guys for recommending you shoot your question by me. It’s humbling, and satisfying to be able to be recognized by peers in this way. And I’m glad I could help a bit. So that’s my take anyway. Again, I would stick to a two on/two off twice, then take a good month to two months off and give it another go at that point or later still. You should get great gains which of course would be relative to your style and goals of training strategy.
My only other recomendation would be to keep your carbs in check while on. Not too low, but keep them down to help the winstrol combat the potential for water retention from the drol. It doesn’t take too much to get that going if you start cramming down carbs, so watch that.
These were the final oral only cycles I ran before taking the plunge with injecs, and I had nothing but positive results each time I did this. Never had any BP issues or any sides. Also as Game pointed out, I never took anything during pct, and was just fine. Having said that, it would certainly be ok to take a nice LH stimulating supplement as described by Game and the others to give you a boost during pct. Just realize you'll lose a bit of the "bite" as you drop those later too. But either way you'll do great.
The first off period of two weeks the gains continued, especially the first week when they were just as strong and solid as the “on” period. The second week they kept coming but slightly less pronounced.
Of course if you’re really gyno prone, you SHOULD have some nolva on hand just in case you get any symptoms of it. Or one of the progesterone targeted serms instead, I’ve heard both used succesfully despite what some say of one or the other. DB has an interesting thead right now on the difft options for this other gyno cause. I doubt you will get it, but you never know if you are indeed that sensitive.
Hope this helps, looks like most of the guys put this out there pretty much, but since you sent me the pm, I thought I would post this for you anyway.
good luck,
ToneBone[/quote]
I knew you’d point this guy in the right direction. Good job, Tone.
Zone, thank you SO MUCH for a very clear and concise post. It provided me with exactly what I needed to know. 5.0., thanks for telling me about Zone!! This seems to be the only forum where I could get some actual information. Other forums I’ve been in only have people telling other people that their ideas are crap and why they shouldn’t be doing it… without even a single person being able to actually answer the person’s question. I really, TRULY, appreciate it guys. Thanks so much!
Zone, I’m curious to know your take on what Bushy has to say. I mean, you’ve done it your way many times and had good results. Bushy, what part of Zone’s methods do you have a problem with and why? What is, in your opinion, the downside to doing it his way?
I’ve read many threads since yesterday claiming that Winny and Anadrol make a good mix (except for one site which I told Game_over about in a PM where everyone said it was a terrible stack). However, the majority agreed that they compliment each other well. Can you elaborate on this?
[quote]vin_mancini wrote:
Zone, thank you SO MUCH for a very clear and concise post. It provided me with exactly what I needed to know. 5.0., thanks for telling me about Zone!! This seems to be the only forum where I could get some actual information. Other forums I’ve been in only have people telling other people that their ideas are crap and why they shouldn’t be doing it… without even a single person being able to actually answer the person’s question. I really, TRULY, appreciate it guys. Thanks so much!
Zone, I’m curious to know your take on what Bushy has to say. I mean, you’ve done it your way many times and had good results. Bushy, what part of Zone’s methods do you have a problem with and why? What is, in your opinion, the downside to doing it his way?
I’ve read many threads since yesterday claiming that Winny and Anadrol make a good mix (except for one site which I told Game_over about in a PM where everyone said it was a terrible stack). However, the majority agreed that they compliment each other well. Can you elaborate on this?[/quote]
Well here's a secret, ha, haa, Bushy knows good and well the combo, as he turned me onto it initially. It just worked really well for me and I had been an "oral only" guy for a long time before using the pins. Please don't read too much into that, (oral only guy), lol.
What he's saying is very true, in that class I and II together make for a better and more effective gain across the board. In fact I WOULD add Primo or Var to the favorite, but getting a hold of either is difficult, especially Primo, as they are very expensive usually.
I've done tbol, primo, winstrol, and the aforementioned combo, all seperate and in difft combinations, and just enjoyed the gains from drol/win the best tit for tat. The other orals just don't give you the size gains that you can get with drol/win in my opinion. I've even ran the Var/Dbol and that didn't impress me near as much even though it's similar in it's construction.
I am saying that Bushy's right about the synergy of mixing classes for sure, but that particular same class combo just kicks ass for not having another class with it. Add in a class I and you're really getting some bang for your buck, only trouble like I said is the two top oral class I's are expensive as hell and hard to get.
ToneBone
When you say you would “add Primo” do you mean replacing Anadrol with Primo or literally adding Primo to make Anadrol/Primo/Winny?
[quote]vin_mancini wrote:
When you say you would “add Primo” do you mean replacing Anadrol with Primo or literally adding Primo to make Anadrol/Primo/Winny?[/quote]
Correct on the second one.