T Nation

First Cycle Questions (Have Mercy!)

Hi guys,

This is my first post. I’m expecting the worst from asking this question, but here it goes:

I’m 34, 6’0" 192lbs (bodyfat in the mid teens), training off and on for several years but training seriously for roughly two years. Started out at 165lbs two years ago and am at 192lbs right now.

I started reading up on aas on several forums… there’s definitely alot to learn. I want to do an 8 to 10 week session of all out effort: perfect diet, training, rest, water intake, and some aas to give everything a boost.

Most of you will say that if you can’t take needles you’re not ready for aas, and I can fully understand that. However, knowing that an oral only aas is more risky than an injectable, I can only go the oral route.

The three main oral only cycles I have seen online are as follows:

  1. Anavar only (50mg/day for 8-10 weeks)
  2. Anavar/Primobolan stack
  3. Anavar/Winstrol stack

(remember that these are all orals)

Through alot of reading I wound up on a website which seemed to have a decent following with a fairly large and active message board and even had an overseas website to purchase product. One of the oral only cycles they were suggesting were as follows:

10 Weeks Anavar 50mg Every Day
6 Weeks Winstrol 50mg Every Day
Week 11: 40mg Nolva/100mg Clomid Every Day
Week 12: 30mg Nolva/50mg Clomid Every Day
Week 13: 20mg Nolva/50mg Clomid Every Day

I’m not sure if the Winstrol is taken during the 6 first weeks or the 6 last weeks of the cycle.

I am looking to drop bodyfat, harden my muscles, increase strength, and welcome any increase in mass. I know that this is not much of a mass cycle though I’m sure it will give a good boost to my mass building diet.

I know that most of you will tell me oral only is stupid, fine. It’s bad for the liver, fine. Let’s just assume that I can only do oral and I’m looking for the best possible cycle for my situation. Money isn’t a concern. If you were me, how would you do it?

Before I get to assuming, can you explain why you cannot inject?

If it’s just a matter of aversion, you’re not where each of us once was, before we took the ‘plunge’.

I have an extreme aversion to needles. The sight of one can literally make me pass out. It’s one of the only things in this universe that my brain can’t handle without shutting down ;o) Because of this, I’m taking the only approach that is available to me. Call me what you’d like, but that’s what it is.

Hmm, well that would limit you. What about someone you trust injecting you?

He’d have to bring a shitload of smelling salts everytime he’d come over :oP

But, seriously, it would have to be an oral only. I don’t see myself doing it any other way. Let’s just assume that I have to choose from one of the choices above (unless someone can think of a more effective oral cycle).

Okay, I was just curious.

Oral cycles work, but aren’t really recommended. You would run it in shorter stretches than a test cycle. A few weeks on, two off, a few on, two off, something like that. I’ve never done an oral only, or any orals for that matter, so I really don’t have much more than that super-generic advice.

Look up some threads in the search cycle. InTheZone comes to mind, as he’s logged many oral only cycles, and outlined his programs in detail. Maybe he’ll be able to shed some light for you.

Vin, I once had similar fears honestly

I started out getting someone to do them for me in the glutes.

Then I tried the shoulders with help

Then I had help in the quads, and now I can do it myself.

I promise you I had similar problems with needles but you can get over it, maybe the first few you have you might even pass out, but if you are lying down on the bed thats OK, just get your head down bite the pillow and take it in the ass! after a couple of jabs you will be laughing to yourself for being so scared as you realise its not so bad.

Just use the smallest gauge needles available for what you are injecting and ask someone with a soft steady hand to help you.

After a few jabs you will realise its not so bad at all, just like brushing against a stinging nettle, its a little short sharp pain thats gone in seconds ( a bit like me when I’m having sex hehe).

As for orals only, you can go that way bro but Anavar for example is very expensive and your money could be so much better spent on injectables.

Also consider this please, the damage you can do to your liver with these cycles is a lot worse than how it would be with injectables, also you will keep what you have gained if you do it right on injectables.

You are looking at damaging your body and wasting a lot of money on something that will not last, when you could spend less and getmore from it.

You need to face your fear if you want to do it right man.

I understand that injectables are the “doing it right approach”. I also know that I would keep more gains that way. I just couldn’t possibly inject myself with anything. I also understand that it will cost me more… that’s fine… money isn’t an issue.

I’ve explained what my options are. Humour me and help me explore those options… please? ;o)

Well, I invited InTheZone to check out this thread… maybe he can shed some light on what I want to do.

No pain, No Gain…

Yea, Tone really likes a Anadrol/Winstrol combo if my memory serves me correctly. Hopefully he will weigh in on this for your sake, and share with you his vast knowledge of shorty orals.

Trust me when I say I get plenty of pain in the gym. Let’s not focus on trying to convince me to inject… instead, let’s focus on what my options are.

Thanks, Tico. Yeah, I’m hoping he chimes in as well. Everyone from other forums I’ve read all say to do a long cycle of 8 to 12 weeks… some even said as high as 16. This is the first place that brought up multiple short cycles.

[quote]vin_mancini wrote:
I understand that injectables are the “doing it right approach”. I also know that I would keep more gains that way. I just couldn’t possibly inject myself with anything. I also understand that it will cost me more… that’s fine… money isn’t an issue.

I’ve explained what my options are. Humour me and help me explore those options… please? ;o)[/quote]

I know I’m another guy offering you what you don’t want to hear, but I want you to know that your attitude is shutting off any possibility of your ever being able to take an injection.

Certainly you have received some kind of injection in your life? Well, if you were able to get it once and didn’t die, you can do it again. Seriously the only thing stopping you is the way you view are looking at it.

Humans go through a series of actions when confronted with something they fear. For example, I’ll imagine when you think of or look at a needle, your muscles tighten up, your breathing elevates, and you start to picture in your mind all sorts of graphic scenarios that further reinforce your fear. You have to understand that you are actually in control of how you feel about things. There are methods you can use to overcome your fear of needles.

I taught them to one of the other posters on here that was just like you and he is now able to calmly and easily inject. You are no different. If you want to open your mind and at least entertain the possibility that you might one day be able to handle injections then let me know, I’ll be happy to instruct you on how to go about doing this.

Because, seriously, there is a reason so many of us say that all orals cycles are not a good idea. And the benefits of pinning yourself far, far outweigh the consequences, provided you do it right.

Conquistador, I think that was an excellent post. You’re definitely right and I may take you up on that some day as I definitely need to get over my fear. The fact is that I’m already a bit uneasy about taking some aas and would really, genuinely, prefer to start with something simple. If I have a good experience with good results, I’ll surely want to do more sometime down the road and would, at that point, definitly consider taking your advice by “doing it right”. I’m being genuinely sincere when I say this.

In the meantime, trying to keep things simple, and as reasonable safe as possible, I’m looking for some feedback in regards to the options I just posted. I just got off the phone with a cousin of mine who told me that one of his buddies did a Primo only cycle (tabs) and had good results. Then again, neither of them are anywhere near being near-expert level users and I would probably put more clout into what you guys have to say. Can anyone here provide me any feedback?

Just let me know, man. My methods are proven to work :slight_smile:

I’ll give you a ring in 6 months or so ;o)

So… nobody else willing to chime in here? :o)

quit being a pussy and jab that shit in! lol no im KIDDING! While i never really had a fear of needles i most certainly did not at all like them. When i decided to use AAS i was surprised on how my want and will to improve my physique and get stronger outweighed my distaste toward sticking sharp pieces of metal in my body :slight_smile:

and i read the thread its been said a million times but im going to repeat it again for you once you do it after that its cake and i think many will on here will even admit to WANTING inject days to come because in a sick/twisted sort of way…we like it.

Bottom line i think after you get a taste of the gains from even oral AAS you will strive for more and the idea of injects will seep into your mind while your sleeping push the dream about that co-worker who you just know has to be a freak in the sack aside and an image of yourself all ripped up with her hanging on your arm will appear and WHAM! you’ll be converted, well thatd be cool anyway…

I just realized that i didnt even answer your ?'s hmmm oops IMHO the best oral cycle you could do would be the anadrol/winstrol combo at 100mg drol and 50mg winny per day. I talked to Tone about this combo many times and World also seems to enjoy it.

the two in a way cancel out each others sides with winny combating drol bloat and the “wet” drol aiding in combating the aching joints caused by winstrol. It would be best to follow the 2-3 weeks blasts as they seem to work very well.