T Nation

First Cycle Proposal


#1

I'll start off by saying I've done allot of reading and the major theme over years on this forum seems to be "do your own research first" so I have read the stickies, the "Steroid Newbie Cycle Planning" in particular I have gone through in depth. One of the recurring posts I saw in there was that it is encouraged to get approval from vets after you have done real research. I just got out of the Army and I trained for years while I was in. More intensely in the past year then usual. I have tried many diet plans over the years and different training cycles but have never seemed to get much higher in gains idk if I have just reached a generic limit or what but I'm ready to start my first cycle next month. I already have some gear and I'm just looking for final advice or corrections to my plan. I respect all opinions as I knew I'm the newbie but with all do respect I know I'm ready for this and I'm going to go through with it either way but it will be much easier with some helpful advice. So here it goes.

I'm 24 years old. (I know the sticky says 25 but I will be in several months and I don't see the point in waiting a few months when my professional and personal schedule will be much more restricting at that time)

I'm 172lbs ( I joined the Army at 138 and have spent years trying to bulk naturally and have kinda hit a wall nut gaining much and very slowly)

I'm 5'10"

Weeks 1-6 Dbol orals 10mg 3x/D ED
Weeks 1-12 Test Cyp 300mg E4D
Weeks 10-14 Proviron 50mg/D

PCT

Weeks 14-18 Nolva 20mg/D

My thinking behind this is 12 weeks is within the realm of a standard cycle length and the dosage is low with the idea that I'm new and not real big to start with so I won't need much to get that boost for gains.

Stick to my usual bulking diet with just a tweak to the carbs so it will consist of eating 6xd
Basically:
Calories: (3500-4000)
Protein: (200-250g) chicken, tuna, whole eggs, lean streak, & protein shakes.
Carbs: (150-200g low to help with water retention) brown rice, whole wheat bread, potatoes.
Fats: (80-100g) natural peanut butter, nuts, flak seed, & fish oil
Liquids: min 1gal water & 2-4 cups low fat milk
Vegetables: spinach & romaine lettuce

Training: (this is different from my usual schedule due to the quick muscle recovery)
Monday: Chest, Triceps, Abs
Tuesday: Back, Biceps, Calves
Wednesday: Traps, Shoulders, Abs A.M. Quads, Hamstrings P.M.
Thursday: Cardio 2x/d
Friday: Chest, Triceps, Calves
Saturday: Back, Biceps, Abs
Sunday: Traps, Shoulders, Calves A.M. Quads, Hamstrings P.M.

If there is anything you can add or take away from this or even just some advice for me on this cycle I'm open to any and all criticism Im here to learn so I can do this right.


#2

Glad you did some significant research. Your cycle is very on point and shows some knowledge was gained in the field. Regardless you’re on a board where perfection is praised so some few things I want to fill you in on about your plan.

First off, your macros are really off bro.
250g of P = 1000cals
200g of CHO = 800cals
100g of F = 900cals

These are all the high ends of your macros and it still adds up to 2700cals. That’s 1300cals away from your 4000cals goal. In your mind you might be bulking but you’re basically consuming my macros during a cut (-100g carbs/+100g pro). Recheck your food plan to really squeeze in 4000cals man. Try adding another 100g of Protein and 50g of Fat if you want to keep carbs low. That’ll add 850 additional cals and put you on 3550cals. I’m sensitive to carbs too but if I time them right I can consume as much as 300-400g (Pre/Post/After Post).

Secondly, your training is overkill man. I’m your height at 213 and I cannot imagine doing a regimen like this. I know competitors that wouldn’t stick to something like this. Yes muscle recovery is faster on gear but you’re also able to hit the muscle much harder thus resulting in a longer period time to recover. You grow when you rest man. I don’t think you’re eating enough to even be considering an AM & PM workout, or running enough gear for the matter either. Try something much more simpler that will allow you to annihilate each muscle once a week. With this tactic you will see growth man.

I don’t think anyone will bug you about your age because you’ve made some decent gains (34lbs) naturally. Your dosage is nowhere near low for a first cycle. It is optimal. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise as I believe you will see some great gains with a little tweaking of diet and regimen. Good luck man. Keep us posted on results.

Chizeled


#3

^Chizeled has good advice on training and diet.

to the OP, you might want to hold off on the cycle, and concentrate on 4 good days of lifting with a clean bulking diet.

when i got out of basic training, i was about 155 (prolly around 7% at 6’1"), and when i left active duty, i was around 220 (maybe 15% or so?). but over the next 6 months, i gained another 15 pounds of muscle, and got leaner, too. i think this was due to being able to focus more on lifting, and not having PT and field time interfere with gaining muscle and stuff…

just something to think about… otherwise, i think the cycle looks pretty good.


#4

Alright I really appreciate the help guys. And I’ve taken it in and made some changes to the diet and training. As waiting on the cycle to focus on lifting I’m doing that already I hadn’t planned to start this cycle till next month. I’m just trying to get everything planned out ahead of time.

First Cycle:
Weeks 1-6 Dbol orals 10mg 3x/D ED
Weeks 1-12 Test Cyp 300mg E4D
Weeks 10-14 Proviron 50mg/D

PCT

Weeks 14-18 Nolva 20mg/D

Diet:
Calories: (3500-4000)
Protein: (350g+) chicken, tuna, whole eggs, lean streak, & protein shakes.
Carbs: (200-250g) low to help with water retention) brown rice, whole wheat bread, potatoes.
Fats: (100-150g) natural peanut butter, nuts, flak seed, & fish oil
Liquids: min 1gal water & 2-4 cups low fat milk
Vegetables: spinach & romaine lettuce

Training:
Monday: Chest, Triceps, Abs
Tuesday: Back, Biceps, Calves
Wednesday: Rest
Thursday: Traps, Shoulders, Abs
Friday: Quads, Hamstrings, Calves
Saturday: Cardio
Sunday: Cardio

This is the same Training schedule I’ve been using lately. let me know if you think there needs to be anymore changes.


#5

If that split hasn’t given you any issue than go for it. I’m not a big fan of it but I’m very anal when it comes to splits so my opinion isn’t enough to suggest changing your regimen. Just feel hitting every muscle in 4 days is still an overload and not giving each muscle its proper training when on cycle. This seems like something more efficient when you’re off gear. As long as you’re not in the gym for 2hrs to get a good workout you should be fine. Everything else seems spot on though. Good luck and post results.

Chizeled


#6

Im completely open to tweakin the regimen, if you or anyone else has a good proposal on a better split im more than happy to take the help just wanta get this right. i agree that hitting everything in just 4 days isnt enough to focus on each muscle group but i know you said my first shot at the regimen was overkill so i just threw out what ive been doing which is far from perfect otherwise i wouldnt be starting the gear. so any suggestions on how to chedule the regimen im open to any suggestions.

thanks


#7

Well for one don’t start gear cause your regimen sucks. You start gear when everything else is perfect and you want to take things to the next level. The routine you have now is fine for being off cycle and I’m not saying otherwise, I just can’t let that statement fly. Moving on.

One thing I want to throw on here is to not limit your regimen around a weekly timeline. Your body has no idea if its Tuesday or Friday nor does it care. A split does not need to be a 7 day period is what I’m trying to get across because it seems as if you think this is the case. I have an 8 day split currently. A buddy of mine has a 10 day split and my younger brother is an athlete and has a 12 day split. Just want to open your mind to these regimens that provide less cramming.

I don’t want to blindly make your split cause everyone is different and the generic ones tend to lead to lagging muscles down the road and everyone has a different view on the ideal physique. With that said, are there any muscles you’d prefer more emphasis? Any muscle that grows with less attention? Any muscle that requires longer recovery? Any muscles that you pay no mind too (Traps, Forearms)?

These are all questions that should take some time to answer if you’ve never put thought into them. Most people come up with these answers very quickly after a year or two of training. Only reason I ask is because people tend to constantly change their splits year round trying to accomplish what their previous one lacked. I think if you make yourself a good split it can last you a long time with little change besides exercises for each muscle.

Chizeled


#8

Alright like i said before i want to do this right so thanks for the constructive criticism. I think I’m gonna hold on to the gear i have and wait a little bit to find regimen thats gonna fit me better (not based on a 7 day split) with more emphasis on muscle groups that need more atention like my chest which is one of the things i have the hardest time getting gains in as opposed to biceps where ive had gains much easier.

Also give some attention to smaller muscle groups like forearms that i usually leave out. So thanks again im gonna iron some details find a better plan as far as the regimen goes at least. Then once i got it ill start my cycle. Don’t want to rush it and screw this up. I want to get the most out of it with minimal regrets. Thanks again taking it all in and learning from it before i start.

between now and when i start my cycle if you or anyone else that reads this thread has any more input to offer its always appreciated.


#9

1 - Chest (LI)
2 - Back & Forearms
3 - Quads, Hams, Calves
4 - Rest
5 - Chest (HI) & Triceps
6 - Forearm, Abs, Calves
7 - Traps & Delts
8 - Rest

See if you like this. I too used to have a hard time with chest and I found incorporating a High Intensity (12-15reps) & Low Intensity (6-8reps) workout in my split aided with some serious growth. If you keep your food sources relatively clean and time them accordingly, I don’t think you’ll have a need for cardio. Regimen may look good on paper but only one way to find out how it really works. Good luck.

Chizeled