T Nation

First Cycle Proposal

Firstly, sorry for the one-post account, but I?d like to keep my accounts separate due to my occupation.

I know I?ll probably get flamed with my stats, but I?m 23 and 12%bf at 192lbs and 6?1?. I?ve always had a light frame for my height and fast metabolism (getting to 215 naturally took 6000 cals/day). Deadlift: 475, Squat: 365, Bench: 225

I have a period this summer in which I can focus entirely on lifting and eating, and wish to maximize my recovery and subsequent gains. The goal of this cycle will be nearly entirely size.

My original intention was to run TestE/Deca because putting on size has always been a problem (whereas leaning down is extremely easy and can be done nearly effortlessly). However, everything I?ve read seems to highly recommend against doing so. Instead, the idea will be a simple TestE cycle with an oral kickstart.

Diet will be about 33% F/C/P starting at 5000 calories and increasing weekly. I respond well to alternating between high carbs and high protein. I also respond well to high volume so I?ll most likely use a 7-day volume progression.

W1-4 Dianabol 50mg ED
W1-6 Milk Thistle 150mg ED
W1-8 Test-E 240mg E3D (easier to measure out than 250mg due to the particular dilution factor)
W1-8 Adex .25mg ED

W9 Adex .25mg EOD
W10 Adex .125mg EOD
W11 Nolva 50mg ED
W12 Nolva 25mg ED

As far as I know of my family history, I am not predisposed to gyno, but incase gyno symptoms do appear, I?d double the AI dose, and if that doesn?t help then introduce Letro.

Other Supplements:
Casein, Whey, BCAAs, Fish Oil, Creatine

Question: Alternatively, would it be possible to entirely lay off Adex the first week and begin on W2 or start with .25mg EOD starting and see if there’s too much bloating?

Comments/Criticisms please (besides the inevitable flaming I suppose will come).

A few things jump out at me, but is looks otherwise OK.

  1. Standard Nolva PCT is 4 weeks of W1: 40mg/d W2: 40mg/d W3: 20mg/d W4: 20mg/d

  2. Upping the Adex should take care of any nipple sensitivity. In the case where you feel urgent action is required, Nolva will work more effectively than Letro. Use the Nolva at 40mg/d alongside the Adex until the sensitivity goes away and then drop the Nolva and continue with a higher dose of Adex.

  3. If your dbol is good, 30mg a day is more than enough. Especially for a first time run with it. That stuff blows you up and gives you power like nobody’s business. It also aromatizes heavily so you may want to up your Adex dose while on the two aromatizing compounds simultaneously (test e & dbol). Some are prone to back pumps with dbol. I hear say that 5g of taurine per day (split doses) and some potassium (a few bananas perhaps) help with this.

[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
3) If your dbol is good, 30mg a day is more than enough. Especially for a first time run with it. [/quote]

The place where it comes from is in 50mg powder caps though. I’d be possible to break it up but I don’t have a laboratory-grade scale at my disposal.

With dbol it is always a better idea to get it in low dosage units. You can always pop more than 1. When it is high dosage units, that complicates things. dbol is recommended to take in split doses since it has a short half life. I took 10mg 3x/d on my cycle and that worked great.

You can try popping the whole 50mg an hour or two prior to working out and see how that works for you or you can start the mad scientist routine and attempt to split the caps into 10mg 3x/d. See what works for you.

I was just thinking a good question for Bill or somebody would be dilution in olive oil. I’d think it’d be easy to dissolve it in any organic solvent, but how stable that is for saving doses I’m unsure.

Yes, I notice a lot of domestic sources offer liquid dbol. I am sure someone here or google can tell you how to do it. 10mg tabs are so convenient!! Next time…

As I finish up the cycle here, I’ve made some notes:

Weight: 224 at roughly 15% bf. If that’s accurate, I’ve gained 10.56 lb fat and 21.44 lb muscle (with water). The only caliper site noticeably different was the abdominal site.

On a cycle with a lot of carbs, my face looks like shit. my jawline is noticeably thicker, but my face and neck bloat easily with the carbs.

Dbol is a huge pain in the back. I didn’t get any mental effects from it, but the pump induced from the workouts was the most intense pump I’ve ever felt.

The only side effect that was uncomfortable was the hypertension. My BP averaged 140/92, up from a baseline of 114/80. No acne anywhere, no mood changes, no sleeping problems. A slight increase in libido.

I put 75 lb on my deadlift, 50 lb on my squat, and 50lb on my bench.

For my second cycle, I still want to get my weight up higher. My goal is to compete in powerlifting or strongman. I’m debating between a Tren/Test or EQ/Test cycle. Any opinions would be welcome. (Otherwise, I’ll continue searching for relevant threads)

How much weight are you trying to gain? Tren is great for strength but I’ve only been on it about a week at a low dose and it already seems to be affecting my appetite. If I was trying to gain more weight right now it would be challenging on the Tren. I know some people have success with test/tren/eq since the eq could offset the appetite effect.

The goal is to be in the 242-275 range

[quote]Doesnotexist wrote:
You can try popping the whole 50mg an hour or two prior to working out and see how that works for you or you can start the mad scientist routine and attempt to split the caps into 10mg 3x/d. See what works for you.

I was just thinking a good question for Bill or somebody would be dilution in olive oil. I’d think it’d be easy to dissolve it in any organic solvent, but how stable that is for saving doses I’m unsure.[/quote]

Apart from the fact that a ‘cap’ contains more than the active ingredient - it contains fillers which could be anything, ‘dianabol’ will not dissolve in an oil.

It doesn’t dissolve in vodka either… IME you need at least 120proof alcohol. But then you also have the fillers which may not dissolve.

Just dose the dbol first thing in the morning or open it and split the powder by eye and shove it in your mouth.

While as a BB i would be unhappy with 10lbs of fat in a cycle - i realise our goals differ and the fat will actually assist your lifts, so it was a very successful cycle.

Be aware, 30lbs of mass is not going to be recreatable every cycle… far from it.

I wonder - seeing a PL and strongman training and events are so vastly different (in energy system) how does your training account for both disciplines whilst making the most of yourself?

For your second - or proposed cycle - you will find that a dose above ~250mg/wk of Tren causes some serious losses in aerobic ability so would seriously impede your ability to do strongman… so if training strongman i would opt for something else - masteron maybe, and if for PL - tren should do fine.

I come from an athletic background and have a high aerobic capacity, so my training focuses on establishing my strength levels.

I train foremost my powerlifting events with some strongman principles included. I don’t have access to a full strongman set of gear, so I was only able to include farmer’s walks, keg loading, log/axle press (in lieu of military pressing), and truck pulling.

The type of aerobic capacity you are speaking of isn’t the sort of energy system that will be the main focus during strongman type events.

Of course you will need to breathe - as it is not just the PCr system you use as is the case in PL. But it is predominately the lactate system you’ll use - so glycogen - along with the oxygen system too… Which is why i mentioned the effect trenbolone seems to have on aerobic capacity. Anyway, i will leave it to you.

You mentioned in your first post that you want size - but i assume that is secondary to strength? If so as i have been saying tren would be preferable to Deca.

Also Gynecomastia is not something that you can look to family history to assess your likely hood of developing it.

Also if you are concerned about hypertension, then i would suggest you al least have regular BP monitoring, and maybe look into the fact that all the drugs that are best at increasing strength are the strongest androgens too - so will all significantly increase BP (along with the other action/reactions that increase blood volume).

JMO