T Nation

First Cycle, Proper Proposal


Hey all. Before I start I would like to thank any who contribute to this thread and send blessings your way. Who ever you are.

Age: 23

Training History:
15-18 HS Varsity Baseball Bench, Clean, and Squat 3x week including some accessory work
18-22 College Baseball - A variation of the above with standard bodybuilding work on any days off
23 As of now I am no longer playing ball. I however wish to compete in a raw power lifting meet in the near future.

Stats: Bench: 385 have done 405 but was at a higher bodyweight Squat: 525 have done 545 but same situation Deadlift: 585 my deadlift was always my weakest lift

I dont have specific body part measurements but I wear size 34 jeans and XL shirts and would guess my arms to be around 17 inches maybe.

I weigh between 225-230 and am fairly lean can see 4 of my abs not chizzeled or anything. probably 13-15% bf or a little higher dk.

Im 5'8" btw.

Cycle Goals: No previous cycle history. My cycle goals are to gain weight/get stronger.

Here it goes.

I have two cycles in mind.

Cycle 1

Week 1-8: Test E 500MG/Week (250MG on Monday and Thursday)
Week 1-10: ADEX .25MG EOD, Reduce to .25MG E2D during last week
Week 10-14: Nolvadex 40/20/20/20

Cycle 2
Replace Test E with Sustanon at same dosage. Dont know if this is a good idea as I havent done much research on Sust but understand that it is made up of diff test esters. The reason I suggest it is because I want to keep the cycle short since its my first one and would like to see how my body reacts and the reason Im suggesting Sust is so I can reap the benefits of the different esters during the first 3-4 weeks since most say thats when Test E really kicks in.

Any help is appreciated thanks buddies.



Does PCT have to start earlier or later on the Sust cycle?

How many times a week does Sust have to be injected since the half life is different? Cant say Im looking forward to more then 2 injections a week lol !

Does a lower or higher MG amount need to be used when Sust is in place of the test E?


Hey man. Great to see a proper proposal, thank you!! Also good to see that you obviously know what it is like to do things naturally. Although still young you have what looks like great size and strength.

Most of the responses I am guessing you will get on here are going to be for the single ester (test e). The consensus from most is going to be that a simple single ester would be best for a first cycle. My first two cycles I ran were with test e, and had great results.

The second time I used a fairly large front load, which made a major noticeable difference. If you do go with the test e, you should frontload. I did this by simply injecting 200mg every other day for 4 injections then went to a 500mg a week e3d injection schedule for the rest. Others may have different preferences on a frontload. (I am still learning but that seemed to work great for me).

On a separate note, I am 4 wks into a sust cycle now and absolutely love it. Although I have added tren in this cycle, the first two weeks were just sust and in less than a week I felt great. Sust does need to be injected eod to ensure consistent blood levels, which could be a negative for your first cycle. All in all, as mentioned previously most will tell you to go with the test e, but if you do your research on sust and like what you see, theres no reason why you can't go that route.

As far as the pct question, they would start on the same day. Although there are short esters like prop in sust, there are also long esters like sust, which have long half lives. On a side note on the PCT though. Why not 40/40/20/20? This is a more typical dosing of nolva. Although it may not make a massive difference, and many people run serms very differently, you mine as well go by the book for the first go around!

One more suggestion. Have you thought at all about a four week Dbol jump start? If you want to keep it as simple as possible for your first time it is no big deal at all. So in no way are my saying this is what you should for sure do, but I do think it is worth consideration. You could dose it anywhere between 20 and 40 mg a day for your first go around.

The Dbol would be working well in less than a week, which is nice while your waiting for the test e to kick in fully. I have learned to use dbol as more of a pre-workout boost also, after reading up on some stuf saps had written. I dose 10mg in the morning, 20 mg pre workout, and 10mg, 5 hours later. Seems to be a great balance for me.

Good luck man. If you have questions about anything ive said, of course feel free to ask. Also, Im sure many others will have comments/suggestions for you


I am leaning towards the Test E as well it just sucks that I have to wait till the third or fourth week to feel on when Im running an 8 week cycle.

I thought about front loading but honestly dude Im just scared shit less of sides as this is my first cycle which is why I didnt throw in the dbol kick start. Kinda just wanted something really simple with minimal drugs to see how i react to test.

I feel like I can run 2 or 3 test cycles my first year and make very impressive gains. EOD injections with Sust is obviously out of the question because Ive never pinned my self before.

Do you think running test e for 8 weeks is worth it? Should I run it longer and can i bail if I feel the sides coming on such as hairloss? I dont want to take something like finasteride as Ive herd many suffer from ED problems and doesnt work. So this cycle is basically for testing the waters but I do want it to be a successful cycle. Thanks so much for your post. God bless.


IF youre this scared of a simple test cycle then dont use steroids.

Use 500mg/wk of test E. Frontload it. Use an AI. and come off with SERM pct. 8 weeks is fine.

Do you have the MPB gene? How do you know youre going to lose your hair? Shedding is normal but for people without MPB it grows back


All good points. 750mg for the frontload it is.

Does my AI dose and PCT seem reasonable ?

My mothers father is bald but her brothers are not. I have a pretty good head of hair at this point.

BTW if anyone is from the NY/NJ area...is buying pins legal here? I called a CVS in NJ and the clerk said I needed a script? Is it the same in NY?


You can go to walgreens and ask for insulin syringes. You definitely dont need a prescription for them. Not sure how many theyll sell you at once but people I know usually get 100 at a time no questions asked. Mom and pop pharmacies are also worth looking at.

Or you can just use the internet and buywhatever you want. It's not illegal to buy lab supplies over the internet.


The dose is reasonable, but you may have to adjust it depending on: your individual response to Adex; the quality of the product (if it is a research chem, it is probably underdosed).


You think insulin syringes are g2g for glute shots. im fairly lean but will the test even go through ?

and at Rational Gaze

The ADEX is from a pretty well known pharmacy in india. their 1mg tabs so a quarter of the tab every other day. I want to put on a little bit of water though so i might drop the adex dosage to every two days in some weeks. if any gyno flares up i can start nolva at 20mg a day till it subsides, is that correct?

And again thanks again everyone.


Oil will certainly go through a slin pin. Drawing take a little while but it works. I would not, however, use them for glute injection.

I use them for quad, delt, and ventroglute. But 1" is the shortest Id use for glute and that's only if no other option are possible.


I guess I will do quad and ventroglute injections as well since insulin syringes is all i have access to. In Furious Georges sticky he recommends 40/20/20/20 for the Nolva dosages. How come some people are recommending 40/40/20/20?


Hey guys just bumping the thread to give you guys on update. Got some test e and started my first cycle and it was fake. started my 2nd cycle using prop from a diff source and it was fake again. starting my 3rd cycle now and im 3 days in to some prop with a new source. hopefully ill get lucky this time. running 70mg a day as of now. well see what happens. fuck internet sources. fuck them.