T Nation

First Cycle Prep - Powerlifting Focus


#1

Intro

Age: mid 30s
Training: lifting 10 years with focus on powerlifting this past year.
Current Lifting Stats: Squat ~535, Bench ~405, Dead ~535. BW ~250
Previous Cycle history: none, first cycle.
Cycle Goals: Get stronger while staying within 1 weight class for powerlifting (+-25lbs).
Cycle "Nice to have": Minimal bloating

Cycle Proposal

W 1-10 Test Enth 250mg E3D
W 1-8 Tren Enth 150mg E3D
W 1-12 Arimidex 0.25mg EOD (reduce to 0.125mg EOD in last week)
W 13 Nolvadex 20mg 2x/d
W 14-16 Nolvadex 20mg/d

Post Cycle Questions

Depending on my reactions to this cycle, I would like to continue long term. Is there a 'best practice' (cycles vs continual use)?

Any input is appreciated.

P.S.
* Thanks Bonez217 for template
* Thanks FuriousGeorge for newbie cycle planning
* Thanks xXDevilDogXx for SERM AI
* Thanks to regular posters, this info helps.


#2

Looks pretty decent. The main issue that most are going to have with this is that you want to run a long tren ester (as opposed to tren ace) without ever having used it previously. A relatively high percentage of people have trouble dealing with tren sides (I’d guestimate 25-33%), so it may not be wise to lock yourself into a couple of weeks of uncomfortable sides. It’s a great compound, but if you can’t sleep more than 4 hours a night, I bet you’ll want to bail on it quickly.


#3

Ok, thanks.
I’ll look into switching to Tren A.


#4

Is this a off-season cycle or a competition cycle?
What is your height and fat mass?
It is hard to judge your cycle without knowing the above mentioned two questions.

The cycle itself is quite generic, and well planed. Your lifts are also very solid, assuming it is 100% raw and performed in the same day. But I think it is not very competitive at your weight class (125kg/275lbs). Instead gaining more bodyweight/strength to improve your performance, I think you should consider dropping down to 110kg/242 lbs, or even 100kg/220lbs if you are short.

If you are on the chubby side, I would suggest a cutting cycle first (or two).

Week 1-8 Test-e 250mg E3D
Week 4.5- 9.5 Tren-a 35mg ED (or Masteron /Anavar 50mg ED)
Week 11-14 nolvadex
week 1-10 adex as required
week 2-9 HCG 250iu eod

T3 and clen can also be added to maximise fatloss, but probably not a good idea for a virgin cycle.

You will ease into this cycle without any frontload/kickstart. As test/estrogen builds up, you can ajust adex dosage to suit. By week 4, the test-e would be on “full force”. You will then introduce the short acting trenbolone. If you do not respond well to it, you can replace it with Anavar. I recommend a ketone diet with high frequency training to go with it.

You should be able to cut down to 230 pounds without any problem. With the help of drugs, you should be able to hold on to your muscle mass and strength, and you may even improve slightly.

Depend on your personal preference, whenever you want to compete in an major event, you can do a cycle leading up to the competition. You can either use drugs to drop down a class, or move up a class. I think for most athletes, it is ideal to train into a show and stay drug free during the off-season. My idea is to stay @ 230 lbs when not competing, and drop down to 220lbs ripped for PL competition. The AAS would provide approximately 15% strength boost IME in this scenario.

OR

If you want to move up to the top of your weightclass @ 275lbs, then just do the test/tren/dbol cycles. It will get you there. But IMO the typical image of a powerlifter, some barrel looking dude benching 600 pounds with a triple layer shirt, super back arch etc; it is NOT apealing.


#5

I am looking to compete 3-4 times next year (so a good 6-7 months out).
I am 5’10" and am not sure about fat mass (I really should get that checked) but I am not ripped. I have been more focused on gaining strength and better technique.
My walking around weight is between 245 to 255, and I water cut to compete in the 242.
Being as this would be my first cycle, I was unsure as to what to expect as far as weight gain.
I am happy with my diet, I’ve cleaned it up a lot and have been consistent for about a year.
Meal template is (probably too much info):
6:00 am - 24g of protein powder + 1 Cup Skim Milk
10:00 am - post morning workout shake - 48g of protein powder
12:30 pm - 1.5 chicken breast - 1 cup tuna salad - bed of lettuce or steamed broccoli
3:00 pm - 27g protein bar
5:00 pm - *depending - 24g of protein powder
7:30 pm - post nightly workout - 48g of protein powder
8:30 pm - chicken breast or tuna salad with a few multigrain crackers.

*if my weight dipps down, I introduce more carbs like sweet potato, oatmeal, brown rice.
Yes, those lift stats are raw. I follow the westside methodology plus I do 5 sessions of 45 min cardio a week (hr 120-140).

I will take your points into consideration, thanks Mephistopheles.


#6

You need more real food.

You expect to lift max poundages fuelled with shakes and protein bars?


#7

Ok, I’ll play with adding\substituting bars\shakes with lean meats\veggies.

I am open to other suggestions as I am far from an expert.

Cheers


#8

Without doing myself out of business - here is what my first observations are:

You have a high bodyweight, and i suspect a great deal is fat. You drop a little water to make a weight - but if you actually really focused on diet and training (as much as you should to compete IMO) then you could drop fat, use AAS that allow you to HOLD IM water, AND still compete in a lower weight!
#This will make your lifts significantly more impressive.

Of course if you are 10% this isn’t possible, but at 245lbs i am pretty sure you are nearer 20%(+).

Bloating is not an evil ESPECIALLY for a non-BB goal. Water will give you more ‘bounce’ in the hole plus increase the size of your muscle bellies. It protects your joints too.
Fat is both useful and a hinderance… so if you weigh 250lbs with a high bodyfat, you are likely to be stronger than someone with a lot less fat who weight less.
BUT if you weigh as close to your weight limit as possible with no less than ~13% BF, then you will have a hell of a lot of ‘functional’ weight, plus you will have the extra 30lbs of ‘pull’ from the fat mass you hold (big guys do big lifts).

IF you chose PL because you disliked the body comp factors of BB (you can eat less strict on PL diets) then you are in for a shock! To be successful at any level you need to give 100% - diet, training and if you choose, chemistry.

Adex need to be at least twice the suggested doses you have written - i realise the ‘stickies’ say one thing, but still…


#9

My .02:

Agree with Brook: more Adex. For myself, I would probably run a mg/day, but I experimented a bit to come to that conclusion.

Tren: I’m 9 days into my first tren cycle. tren a @50mg/day. No big whoop. I like it, but its not the BIG BAD TREN I kept hearing about. That being said, I don’t tend to get major sides from just about anything.

I don’t want to go into diet too much, but I agree when brook says you need to eat food over powders.

On the other hand, I don’t think 13% is required for most PLers. In fact, once you go into the 220’s and up, the gut is the rule rather than the exception. Matt Kroc/Konstantinovs aside…


#10

“You have a high bodyweight, and i suspect a great deal is fat. You drop a little water to make a weight - but if you actually really focused on diet and training (as much as you should to compete IMO) then you could drop fat, use AAS that allow you to HOLD IM water, AND still compete in a lower weight!
#This will make your lifts significantly more impressive.”
[mFow]Makes sense, I will work on it.[/mFow]

“Bloating is not an evil ESPECIALLY for a non-BB goal. Water will give you more ‘bounce’ in the hole plus increase the size of your muscle bellies. It protects your joints too.”
[mFow]Agreed. When on creatine my face blows up like a balloon. For vanity reasons I would like to minimize this.[/mFow]

“IF you chose PL because you disliked the body comp factors of BB (you can eat less strict on PL diets) then you are in for a shock! To be successful at any level you need to give 100% - diet, training and if you choose, chemistry.”
[mFow]Agreed, will work on it.[/mFow]

Adex need to be at least twice the suggested doses you have written - i realise the ‘stickies’ say one thing, but still…
[mFow]Good to know, tyvm[/mFow]

Cheers


#11

[quote]OTS1 wrote:

On the other hand, I don’t think 13% is required for most PLers. In fact, once you go into the 220’s and up, the gut is the rule rather than the exception. Matt Kroc/Konstantinovs aside…
[/quote]

I wasn’t saying 13% is required (strange number for me to come up with tho!) - i was saying that i would not go below ~13% if i were looking for max strength.

nahhatameen?


#12

Thanks OTS1.

Yeah, Kroc and Konstantinovs are definately freaky strong and lean.


#13

[quote] Brook wrote:
OTS1 wrote:

On the other hand, I don’t think 13% is required for most PLers. In fact, once you go into the 220’s and up, the gut is the rule rather than the exception. Matt Kroc/Konstantinovs aside…

I wasn’t saying 13% is required (strange number for me to come up with tho!) - i was saying that i would not go below ~13% if i were looking for max strength.

nahhatameen?[/quote]

Seems reasonable.

I do not know the appropriate response for nahhatameen. Please just pretend I said it.


#14

Will do… :wink:

(it is yes)


#15

If I was you, I would actually drop my weight down to 205-10 pound natually. Sure the performance will suffer a bit, but I would be more competitive in my weight class. I would train moderately in the off season, try not to beat up my body. IMO most powerlifter today treat themself like shit, and abuse their body too much.

I would use AAS during pre-comp prep, test/mast/EQ stack. I am looking for a 20 lbs LBM improvment over 12 weeks. I would drop 10 lbs of fat mass during the cycle, and come in @ 220 lbs water depleted on weigh in, ripped. This kind of cycling would suit a competitive powerlifter. This would ensure a long career, and miminise stress to the body over the years.

Look at Kevin Levrone, I know he is not a powerlifter. But I think his methods are great. He doesn’t train at all during the off-season. He would start his contest prep @ 210 pounds or less, benching 3 plates for a few reps at the most. 2 weeks out from the show, he would be 240+, super lean, benching 500 pounds for reps. That’s smart training.


#16

You can’t apply bodybuilding regimes to a Powerlifter.

Coming in water and carb depleted (ie. shredded) for a meet is NOT a good idea.

As for Levrone - he is a one off. His ‘methods’ are not what work for the vast majority of people (like 99.x%).

You think that is smart training? You think you could take any standard BB and train him in that fashion and make him improve? Not to mention that Levrone actually looks unhealthy as fuck off season - not JUST because he is out of shape, he actually looks ill.

I agree the OP should drop his weight - but why does he need to do it naturally when he is looking to use?

ALSO - you say you would look for a 20lb LBM gain and a 10lb FM loss… in 12 weeks. With Masteron and Boldenone.

What is going on with you?


#17

FYI, what I am recommending is not BB style training at all. I picked Leverone as an exmaple (probably not a good one), yeah he is a one-off. But that does not matter Brook.

test/bold/mast won’t work? aye? supersize it buddy :slight_smile: Powerlifter uses real dosages 2 grams plus total per week baby.
I wanted him to use AAS to cut weight to 210 Lbs first (2 moderate cycles), and then use large amount of AAS
for comp prep, compete either 220 ripped, or 242 not so ripped.
Let me try again.

I came from a olympic weightlifitng background, so my training methods are obviously influenced by it. Top level lifter like Pyros Dimas, Oleg Perepechenov, Galabin Boevski are always ripped on stage. For heavier guys (>205lbs), it is not so cruicial. But you should still be relatively lean if you compete in weight classes. The OP is intend to compete in the sport of powerlifting.

I suggest the OP approach it with a bit more professionalism. Do some number crunching, work out the strength/bodyweight ratio etc(sinclair/siff formula), so you can decide what weight class is best for you. It also depends on your objectives. Are you goal oriented (placing), or result oriented (totals).

As far as I know, the 242-275lbs class is quite competitive. There are a lot of big, strong, fat powerlifters in these divisions. But the performance gap between 220 to 275 is actually pretty small. Most of the competiters just don’t want to eat properly. They get carried away with the weight on the bar. I am confident that you can eventually total 1700, all natural@250, single ply.

With AAS assistance during the off season for a couple of years, I think you can still pull off 1700@220 AND pass drug tests. If you want to go all out, then 2000+ @220 is within reach, multi-ply with heavy chemical assistance (compete in WPC/APF).

How much could Ed Coan total, if he was a lifetime natural, and competes 100% raw.


#18

I agree with most of that post - the one before was totally different and BS.

You say you told him to lose weight with AAS? Sorry but i read this:

Even with 2g of AAS you are looking for a gain of 20lbs LBM! Sure it is possible, but IMO only as it is his first cycle and he may have that in him - maybe not after so long training already.
And you should know as much as anyone - doses do not directly relate into gains, or we would all be on 5g, so suggesting it is possible just with a ramp of dosages is… well.

But as i said - your more recent post is much more your style - just calling it as i see it bud.

:wink:


#19

OK, meph: in one post you say that PLers abuse their bodies, and eat and train in ways that beats up their bodies. Then you suggest that OP should lean out a bit naturally. I generally agree with you here.

Next post you say that a PLer should use “real dosages” of 2+ grams of androgen/week. Not that I think that it is impossible to use such a dose safely, but it certainly doesn’t play into the idea of moderating the overall behavior you critiqued in the first post.

What are you getting at here?


#20

I have to admit, I was under the influence of ethanol at the time, so my reasoning may have been compromised.

Most people take powerlifting as a hobby, or lifestyle choice. In that sense, we should train moderately, and not get carried away with super hardcore training and / or chemical assistance.

On the other hand, some people wish to take powerlifting seriously, and reach elite level. The OP have a very solid base with ~1500 lb total raw. So if he chose to do so, he still have a chance. That’s other side of the story.

For the sake of overall health and longivity, it is probably not a good idea to go all out in the sport of powerlifting. All top level PLers have suffered severe injuries, and used considerable amount of AAS over the years. Just like BB, one cycle is never enough.

The OP still have a few years of “prime” left, so if he really want to push the envolope, he can do 5 years of blast and cruise cycling, possibly achieve 2200lbs with multi-ply, 242 class in WPC or similar. And then retire after 40, get on HRT. If you are going to do HRT eventually, then blast and cruise style cycling is the prefered method IMO. If you want to stay drug free when you retire from competitive PL, then it’s a good idea to do short/light cycles.