First Cycle/PCT Input Based on Body Type?

chaznad · December 14, 2015, 5:25pm

Hey all , this would be my first post and also my first cycle . Some info on me to filter responses, Im 32, 6’5, 225 pounds , 8.8% body fat tested through Poloquins 12 pt site ( im tested every 2 weeks ) and have an extensive training background of 12+years coming from a sports background that evolved into training which is now my profession . I have a very solid starting point and was looking to bump it to the next level by possibly adding a good 20 pounds since i feel as though ive hit that natural plateau. My diet is on point as well .

After doing some research i want to keep my first cycle simple and was looking into a Dbol/Test-e cycle, any extra input would be appreciated as i dont know much besides the little research that ive done

Week 1- 5 : 40mg Dbol ED
Week 1-12: 500mg Test-E a week
Week 14-18 : Nolva 40/40/20/20
Weeks ? - ? : Arimedex

PCT is where i got all confused when reading around . I see people saying take HCG , some say its not needed , others take Adex though the entire course of the cycle and PCT … Id rather not take something if Its not necessary … Can you guys look above and see what could be done above or changed

Thank You

McGAZA · December 14, 2015, 5:25pm

First off I would like say I am by no means an experienced user (but have lurked for a long time) so I suggest waiting for other more experienced members to give their input as well. However, I did do almost an identical cycle (test E/DBol/PCT: Nolva) with same doses about 2 months ago as my first, so will comment from my experience… Do not take this as gospel!

I used Arimedex 0.25 mg EOD Week 1-14 dropping to 0.125mg in last week (although some suggest .5mg EOD) I think it is generally accepted that doing a cycle without an AI, especially your fist, is a bad idea so run adex.

I took HCG Week 2.5-12.5, 250IU 2*/week. I felt this facilitated a quicker recovery, as well as preventing gonads from becoming too tight, and didn’t regret taking it (I had the same thoughts before my cycle with regards to not taking stuff that isn’t necessary). So again from personal experience only I would say run this as well if you can!

Otherwise looks nice and simple. Hope this helps.
Good luck!

Mennotinblack · December 14, 2015, 5:25pm

12 weeks. I would do nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 100/50/50/50.

cycobushmaster · December 14, 2015, 5:25pm

[quote]Mennotinblack wrote:
12 weeks. I would do nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 100/50/50/50. [/quote]

why? any scientific data to back this?

i can find a lot that does not support this type of PCT…

chaznad · December 14, 2015, 5:25pm

[quote]Mennotinblack wrote:
12 weeks. I would do nolva 40/40/20/20 and clomid 100/50/50/50. [/quote]

ya , from reading i saw there was no use in taking these together but then again i dont know

cycobushmaster · December 14, 2015, 5:25pm

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The effect of selective estrogen receptor modulator administration on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis in men with idiopathic oligozoospermia.

E Tsourdi, A Kourtis, D Farmakiotis, I Katsikis, M Salmas and D Panidis, Fertility and sterility, Apr 2009

This study evaluates, compares, and contrasts the effects of three selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs), namely, tamoxifen, toremifene, and raloxifene, on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis in 284 consecutive subfertile men with idiopathic oligozoospermia using three therapeutic protocols: [1] tamoxifen, 20 mg, once daily (n = 94); [2] toremifene, 60 mg, once daily (n = 99); and [3] raloxifene, 60 mg, once daily (n = 91). The antiestrogenic effects of SERMs at the hypothalamic level result in a statistically significant increase of gonadotropin levels, which is more marked for tamoxifen and toremifene compared with raloxifene.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Hormonal effects of an antiestrogen, tamoxifen, in normal and oligospermic men.

A Vermeulen and F Comhaire, Fertility and sterility, Mar 1978

The administration of tamoxifen, 20 mg/day for 10 days, to normal males produced a moderate increase in luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol levels, comparable to the effect of 150 mg of clomiphene citrate (Clomid). However, whereas Clomid produced a decrease in the LH response to LH-releasing hormone (LHRH), no such effect was seen after the administration of tamoxifen. In fact, prolonged treatment (6 weeks) with tamoxifen significantly increased the LH response to LHRL. Treatment of patients with "idiopathic" oligospermia for 6 to 9 months resulted in a significant increase in gonadotropin, testosterone, and estradiol levels. A significant increase in sperm density was observed only in subjects with oligospermia below 20 X 10(6)/ml and normal basal FSH levels. When basal FSH levels were increased or oligospermia was moderate (greater than 20 X 10(6)/ml); no effect on sperm density was seen. As sperm density increased, FSH levels decreased, suggesting an inhibin effect. Sperm motility was not improved by tamoxifen treatment. In five boys with delayed puberty, tamoxifen treatment appeared to activate the pituitary-gonadal axis and pubertal development.

http://www.medibolics.com/freq2.htm

DoIEven · December 14, 2015, 5:25pm

I’m doing virtually the exact same cycle, except with the addition of hCG during. This keeps my balls from shutting down, so the recovery process will be much easier. Also with Adex, I’m going with 0.5mg EOD, I’ve seen as low as 0.25 EOD recommended, but I wanna be safe with sides. Good luck bro, please keep us posted!

system · December 14, 2015, 5:25pm

I found I recovered Better with Nolva and clomid, with a low dose AI.

You can use one or the other or both. Up to you and what you find works best.