T Nation

First Cycle Options - Opinions


#1

Long time reader, first time poster.
I am ready to start my first cycle sometime within the next month, but I am torn between what to take. I have access to a bunch of different drugs, but I want to keep it simple since it's my first time.. so I thought I'd ask for some opinions on here. I'm debating between:

Test-E or Cyp 250mg E3D for 10 weeks (either completely by itself, with a Dbol kickstart, with a Prop kickstart, or frontloaded)
or just Test-Propionate 150mg EOD for 8 weeks.
Sustanon is also an option but unless someone can convince me otherwise, I don't really see the benefit from using that over these other two, especially since I'd have to inject at least every other day anyway because of the short esters, and the longer esters would only make less certain when to start PCT.

I would run anastrozole as my AI during the cycle, and probably opt for a standard SERM PCT over a stasis/taper since it's my first time, although I'm still open for opinions on that.

Oh yeah, my stats-
23 (and a half :slightly_smiling: ) years old
5'9"
180lbs
low bodyfat %
training for over 6 years

any and all responses would be greatly appreciated
thanks


#2

6 years on the belt and not cracking 200lbs? I don’t like Sustanon 250 and like products. Personal preference I reckon more than anything. I have no experience with an actual SERM PCT and AAS use. As for the cycle itself, I would run the Test E and the dbol at 25-40mg/day. Coupled with AI use right of the bat, you could be in for a safe bulker.

-Turbo


#3

Everything looks okay to me. I personally like shorter esters, and like your second test prop idea best. If it were me, I’d opt for ED injections, because I just feel that sides are kept to an absolute minimum this way. You could start out that way, and if you absolutely despised it, you could switch to EOD and see how that treats you. Test-e or cyp E3D is fine.

Sounds like a nice, easy, effective first cycle to me. Good on you for doing your homework.


#4

[quote]Turbo Mysterio wrote:
6 years on the belt and not cracking 200lbs? I don’t like Sustanon 250 and like products. Personal preference I reckon more than anything. I have no experience with an actual SERM PCT and AAS use. As for the cycle itself, I would run the Test E and the dbol at 25-40mg/day. Coupled with AI use right of the bat, you could be in for a safe bulker.

-Turbo[/quote]

He’s 5’9" and, if he’s honest, said he has low bodyfat. I don’t see anything wrong with this based upon the information he has given. I would say that we would need to see pics to make such an assessment.


#5

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Turbo Mysterio wrote:
6 years on the belt and not cracking 200lbs? I don’t like Sustanon 250 and like products. Personal preference I reckon more than anything. I have no experience with an actual SERM PCT and AAS use. As for the cycle itself, I would run the Test E and the dbol at 25-40mg/day. Coupled with AI use right of the bat, you could be in for a safe bulker.

-Turbo

He’s 5’9" and, if he’s honest, said he has low bodyfat. I don’t see anything wrong with this based upon the information he has given. I would say that we would need to see pics to make such an assessment.
[/quote]

Aye


#6

Given the choice, i definitely recommend using prop with ED injection.
6 weeks (longer if you are still gaining), with AI, and SERM PCT.


#7

[quote]Cortes wrote:
Turbo Mysterio wrote:
6 years on the belt and not cracking 200lbs? I don’t like Sustanon 250 and like products. Personal preference I reckon more than anything. I have no experience with an actual SERM PCT and AAS use. As for the cycle itself, I would run the Test E and the dbol at 25-40mg/day. Coupled with AI use right of the bat, you could be in for a safe bulker.

-Turbo

He’s 5’9" and, if he’s honest, said he has low bodyfat. I don’t see anything wrong with this based upon the information he has given. I would say that we would need to see pics to make such an assessment.
[/quote]

I agree - i didnt hit 200 until i started using AAS properly, but i wouldn’t change this for the wold… i would prefer to be a little leaner, and lighter, with good amounts of muscle - than fatter, but heavier.
I am in the camp of never needing to go above 15% personally, as by the time i have increased from 10% to 15%, i will have put on a lot of muscle - and it also would have taken some time.

(I am not scared of fat however, and extremely rarely do cardio, and do not need to reduce carbs unless i am trying to drop to a low single digit - i am just a ecto-mesomorph)

Brook


#8

I would definitely recommend a simple Test E 250-300mg E3D, with an ample front load. I am currently doing this as my first cycle and am having great results. With your stats I am sure you will gain with Test alone. Although, I would get something short acting (perhaps dbol) to run while the long ester testosterone is clearing out of your system.


#9

I’m with BenceJones.

w1-6: test e 250mg E3D (Day 1 670mg front load followed by regular bi-weekly dose)
w3-8: dbol 3 x 10mg/d
w1-8: Adex 0.25 ED when on test alone and 0.5mg/d when on both test and dbol (adjust as needed)

W9-12: Nolva 40mg/w | 40mg/w | 20mg/w | 20mg/w

This is my next planned cycle. The only change is I plan on going 700mg/w test e at 200mg EOD. I prefer frequent intervals for max blood level stability. I may add in HCG too.


#10

thanks for all the responses.

i haven’t decided what I’m going to do yet, but I do have a question about DH/Bence Jones’ suggestions.
if i were to do a cycle with a test-e frontload and use a short acting compound at the end while the test clears, would it be more beneficial to use winstrol or dbol? I ask because my goal is lean mass gain, and also winstrol has SHBG lowering properties that might be beneficial especially during a frontloaded cycle. thoughts?


#11

I would go with the standard 10 weeker of

250 mg Test E (2x a week or every 3 days) Week 1-10
30-40 mg Dbol (every day spaced out) Week 1-6
Adex .25 mg (every day)
Nolva (40/40/20/20) Weeks 12-15

That was my first cycle except I used letro and only used dbol for four weeks instead of six. Bench went up 35 lbs, ATG squat went up 80, and clean went up 25 (415, 585, 365) when I maxed at the end of week 4. Body weight went from 240 to 260 (surprisingly clean) and after pct I was a pretty lean 250.


#12

[quote]ThruBeingCool wrote:
thanks for all the responses.

i haven’t decided what I’m going to do yet, but I do have a question about DH/Bence Jones’ suggestions.
if i were to do a cycle with a test-e frontload and use a short acting compound at the end while the test clears, would it be more beneficial to use winstrol or dbol? I ask because my goal is lean mass gain, and also winstrol has SHBG lowering properties that might be beneficial especially during a frontloaded cycle. thoughts?[/quote]

It is really up to you, but I would go with the dbol for more strength and muscle gain. The winstrol may leave you wishing for a little more.

Just make sure you run an AI throughout, possibly upping it a little when you start the dbol if you notice more water retention.


#13

Again I am with BenceJones. Dbol will give you more power. It does have a reputation for water retention, but that can be mitigated to a large degree with adequate AI dosage and well checked diet. Make sure your AI dose is higher when on both test and dbol. It can be lower while on test alone or dbol alone. A good starting range would be 0.25mg/d while on one compound and 0.5mg/d while on both. This can vary quite a bit in individuals so be ready to raise or lower dose as needed.

bloating, low libido, emotional = too high estrogen => increase Adex
achy joints, low libido, mental fogginess, poor morale = too low estrogen => decrease Adex

If you have access to blood labs, target E2 should be low 20’s pg/ml.

Winstrol would work too and its a matter of preference. Winstrol is less powerful and doesn’t aromatize. It requires less attention than dbol for lean gains, just not as much and no heady feeling of being Hercules. Some are susceptible to back pumps from dbol, which depending on the severity can be a deciding factor.