T Nation

First Cycle Opinions/Suggestions

First off, thanks to anyone experienced reading/giving feedback to this thread. I’ll try to keep this simple/straightfoward with enough details to give people an idea of where I’m coming from.

Bio: I’m 22. I have been an athlete (multiple sports) my whole life, and have been lifting/training in different styles since I was 13. I know my body very very well. What I currently do is a mix of oly lifting, powerlifting, gymnastics, anaerobic threshold work, and things requiring overall athletic performance (you can probably guess- I’m just not throwing any names/brands out there). I’m currently at a level analogous to a minor league baseball player doing all he can to advance to the majors. I’ve never been one that people considered “genetically gifted”; all my success has come through diet/busting my ass. I’ve never done any PEDs. I’m looking to get more competitive, and feel that a cycle could help me improve my strength, power, work capacity, and overall athletic performance. I’m not concerned about aesthetics or bodyfat levels, that’s just an added bonus.

My diet is near perfect content wise, and probably 4000cal+ in volume. I consume 180g+ protein daily in the form of organic grassfed beef & buffalo, wild fish, canned tuna, Org. whole milk (raw/grassfed when available), free range eggs, and CFM Whey & Casein. The rest of my diet is 90% organic fruits and vegetables, a shit ton of oatmeal, potatoes, beans/brown rice, 2~jars PB a week, etc. Supplements are whey/casein, creatine,a ton of fish oil, Glucosamine/chon. & MSM, & a Multi.

Stats:
5’7.5" (maybe 5’8" with shoes…)
185-190 lbs
*edit: 9-11% bodyfat
Backsquat: 415
Frontsquat: 345
Overhead Squat: 300
Snatch: 245
Clean and Jerk: 305 (3 wheels coming soon)
Deadlift: 445
Bench:320

Everything/everyone says test is the normal beginner cycle, makes sense. I also wanted to pair it with Equipoise to increase strength, and also because I feel I could benefit from the increased RBC count for oxygen delivery in sustained efforts. Thoughts? Coincidentally, my contact gets both, Sustanon 300 and Eq 300/mL(not sure the exact name). Both 20cc vials.

Proposed Cycle:
Sust: 300 2x/wk, weeks 1-10
Eq: 300 2x/wk, weeks 1-10

HCG: 250 2x/wk, weeks 3-10

Nolva: 10mg ED, weeks 3-12
20mg 2x/ED, week 13
20mg ED, weeks 14-16
Also thinking of a lower dose/longer cycle, edit* 500 of each for 12 weeks, HCG 3-12, two weeks off (cept 10mg nolv ed), same PCT. Thoughts?

Any and all advice/suggestions appreciated.

you’re almost there mate, you’ve got it wrong about the nolva on cycle though. You need an aromatase inhibitor like arimidex.

PCT is messed up too: run clomid at 50mg for 4 weeks, nolva at 40/40/20/20 or both.

run the EQ if you want, but I wouldn’t personally. Save it for your next cycle.

also ur sust 250 has a prop ester in it. This means it needs to be injected more frequently something like EOD or ED would be ideal. Get some slin pins and backload them

The sust and EQ are dosed 300mg/mL in 20mL vials, so I think I may bump down to 500 each for 12 weeks to allow the EQ to affect me more.

Sust: 250 2x/wk, weeks 1-12
Eq: 250 2x/wk, weeks 1-12
Adex: .25mg EOD, weeks 1-12

HCG: 250 2x/wk, weeks 3-12

Nolva: 20mg 2x/ED, weeks 13-14
20mg 1x/ED, weeks 15-16

Once again thanks for the help and feedback guys

[quote]Eggroll818 wrote:
The sust and EQ are dosed 300mg/mL in 20mL vials, so I think I may bump down to 500 each for 12 weeks to allow the EQ to affect me more.

Sust: 250 2x/wk, weeks 1-12
Eq: 250 2x/wk, weeks 1-12
Adex: .25mg EOD, weeks 1-12

HCG: 250 2x/wk, weeks 3-12

Nolva: 20mg 2x/ED, weeks 13-14
20mg 1x/ED, weeks 15-16

Once again thanks for the help and feedback guys[/quote]

Doesn’t he need to wait a week or so after the last sust shot to let the esters clear before beginning PCT? I don’t know what all is in Sust, but the common recommendation for a Test Cyp/Eth cycle is about 2 weeks, which corresponds to about two half lives. I have no idea how t ocalculate that for a blend.

yeah I think sust has long esters so he’d need to wait

Your diet and training sound spot on!

Your cycle is ‘ok.’ Could be better… It is good you lengthened the duration of your cycle; if you use EQ it should be used for a minimum of 12 weeks. More ideally it would be 14-15+ weeks as it is subtle in its results and takes a while to kick in.

A lot of different AAS will increase RBC…

You could always just do a test only cycle (with maybe some d-bol at the beginning and after.)

Also drop the Nolva from the ‘on’ portion of your cycle; this should only be used if you are starting to get puffy/and or itchy nipples. Start around 10 days after your last shot. Some people are using HCG during cycle to keep the nuts firing; I think it is uneeded though for only a 10-12 week cycle.

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

So essentially a two week gap of no shots from weeks 12 to the start of 14 to let the esters clear and stop suppressing me, then 14 to 18 will be PCT.

I may end up just doing test only and saving the EQ like rds mentioned.

One last thing, I’ve read up alot on AIs, and it seems that I’m getting mixed feedback on using them during cycle…some do, some don’t, etc. Not to sound dumb, but how important is it that I use an ancillary AI like aromidex during cycle?

depends on how badly you want to wear a bra

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
depends on how badly you want to wear a bra[/quote]

Ha, not exactly number one on my list. And not to beat a dead horse, but what would be the difference between taking an AI like arimidex during cycle as opposed to a SERM like nolvadex, if they both prevent gyno? A few athletes I’ve trained with took nolva on cycle for gyno prevention…what would be wrong with using it during cycle and then PCT also?

SERM actually increases your estrogen in the bloodstream. It only blocks it at some preferential tissues (most notably the breast tissue). so you have all this exstra estrogen floating around and attaching to other tissues that are not blocked by the SERM, creating estrogenic effects.

AI on the other hand reduces the amount of estrogen circulating in the blood.

This is why it is recommended to start with an AI and only use the SERM if the AI did not get the job done.

So after all’s said and done this is the final review of my cycle.

Sustanon 300: 300 2x/wk weeks 1-15
Equipoise 300: 300 2x/wk weeks 1-15

Aromidex: .5mg EOD weeks 1-17
Nolva on hand

PCT: Nolvadex 40/40/20/20 weeks 17-21

[quote]Eggroll818 wrote:
So after all’s said and done this is the final review of my cycle.

Sustanon 300: 300 2x/wk weeks 1-15
Equipoise 300: 300 2x/wk weeks 1-15

Aromidex: .5mg EOD weeks 1-17
Nolva on hand

PCT: Nolvadex 40/40/20/20 weeks 17-21

[/quote]

Ive been taught by the vets to always introduce one compound at a time and learn how that compound and my body work together, really would like to see you do that! 12 weeks of sust for a first cycle would be awesome…As to your proposed cycle, start off with .5 adex is fine but if everything seems fine I would drop it to .25 EOD. For PCT on an 18 week cycle I would run clomid with it at 100/100/50/50, I say 18 weeks because sust has a deconate ester in it and takes awhile to clear the system, also EQ has a very long ester as well, so PCT shouldnt start until 3 weeks after last shot, which means if you end it at the end of week 15 you dont start PCT till the beginning of week 19.