T Nation

First Cycle of Epistane


#1

Hey everyone

I plan on starting my first cycle of Epistane within this week and wanted some feedback/help.

Here's my supplements list of things I have:
Epistane... of course
Liv52 - Been taking for a week already
Carlson's Fish Oil
CEL Cycle Assist
USP Tamoxifen Citrate 20mg/ml 60ml Vial 1200mg Total

Biotest products:
Low-carb Metabolic Drive
Surge Recovery
Flameout
L-Leucine
Superfood
Rhodiola Rosea
HOT-ROX Extreme

STATS
5'10
200lbs

I generally workout around 6 or 7 PM

Now I've done some research so I'm not going into this like a novice. But I've read some conflicting things. Some people suggest taking the Epistane separate from the Liv52 and cycle assist at like 4hrs apart. Then other things I've read say to take them at the same time....Etc.

Can someone with adequate knowledge on Epistane put a "menu" together for me with hours apart and when to take certain things or if I need anything else. And about how many calories I should consume.

I was going to run Epistane at
20,30,30,30,30,30,30 (maybe 20,40,40,40,40,40,40 too much for week 1???)
40,40,40,40,40,40,40
40,40,40,40,40,40,40
40,40,40,40,40,40,40

And Tamoxifen at
40/40/20/20 for weeks 1/2/3/4
Thinking about buying some TRIBEX Gold to take at the same time.

Feel free to tweak these doses

I wanna do this right so any help would be great. Thanks everyone.


#2

I see no reason to worry about micro-managing epistane vs. support supplement timing. Granted the half-life of most orals is pretty short, but it's still going to be in your body at the same time as the support supplements, regardless of whether you take one a couple of hours before the other.

I think the idea of timing arises out of some peoples' belief that milk thistle blocks androgen activity, something for which I've never seen or experienced any evidence.


#3

You are spending a lot of money on essential and non essential supplements. It must cost a bit of money.
Have you thought about running a mild anabolic cycle instead? I think would be a worthwhile alternative.

If you ONLY use the following

Fish oil
Multi-vit
high strength joint supplement

week 1-13 Boldenone Undeclynate 400mg/ week with frontload
Week 2-14 HCG 250 iu EOD or 500iu 2x week
Week 16-20 Nolvadex 20/20/20/10/10

use skim milk + corn flakes post training (scientifically proven to be very effective)

for comparison, in the same time frame, you can probably run 2x4 week epistane cycles, or 1.5 medium length cycle. If you add up all the stuff, that's a lot of money. so don't use the following

Epistane ... not required obviously
Liv52 you don't need to protect your liver, and it is not very effectiv any way
CEL Cycle Assist doen't really assist anything
Surge Recovery Boldenone + real food will give you plenty of recovery
Low-carb Metabolic Drive same as abvoe
Flameout if you don't overtrain, and take plenty of fishoil, you don't need it
L-Leucine just eat some beef
Superfood use berries
Rhodiola Rosea 300mg caffine pre training
HOT-ROX Extreme stimulant based product is not good.

My proposed cycle would cost about 30 dollars per week, including supplements. It is safe,effective and cheap. Unless you absolutely have to use legal compounds. You should give it some serious thought.


#4

I agree in a less helpful manner - that is simply, ya don't need to dose up on all that shit.

Choose a few basic ergogenic aids and food supplements (creatine, Multi vit, fish oil, whey, WMS) and stick to them - the results you can achieve for plenty of real food (real food = meat, veg, starch carbs, oils) plus plenty of the basic proven supps are amazing. But the supps dont do THAT much.. they aren't 'the secret'.

The 'secret' is no secret - and is (in training and diet) consistency, progression, effort, discipline, sacrifice, dedication and eventually lateral thinking (and direct arm work..).

:wink:


#5

Yeah I understand it's a lot of supps... but I didn't go out and buy all that stuff. I had all the Biotest stuff already. And I wasn't planning on taking all them everyday lol

So main question... each Epistane pill is 10mg so for 20,30,or 40 mg a day should I take them throughout the day or all at the same time?


#6

Throughout the day.


#7

Is Liv52 really ineffective?


#8

There are certainly studies that show that it has positive effects on liver function. Mind you, no studies geared towards AAS users, afaik... generally related to damage from alcohol.


#9

So if taking throughout the day, would there be any sleeping issues if taken at night time? I was thinking for 40mg a day, take the first 10mg around 10AM then the rest at 4 hour intervals. So 10AM, 2PM, 6PM and the last one at 10PM.


#10

Shouldn't mess up your sleep. It wouldn't be the end of the world either if you doubled up on caps at one of the previous intervals.


#11

Depending on when you workout. Many have had sucess with 1 in the AM, 2 pre workout, and 1 PM. I would recommend this if you have a nice chunk of time in between your workout and the time you wake/go to sleep


#12

I Just recently ran a cycle of epistane with good results.
I would run 20mg for the first two weeks and 30mg for the other 2 weeks. I felt as the last week of running 30 my joints started to get tight and bother me (joint pain is a frequent side effect).

So
Week 1 - 20mg a day 1 in morning with fatty meal and other pre workout with some carbs.
week 2 - " "
Week 3 - 30mg " "
Week 4 - " "

I would also grab some red yeast rice, celery seed, and hawthorne. The red yeast rice will help keep your cholesterol in check, the celery seed and hawthorne are for helping your blood pressure.

Have fun and grow. Any other questions let me know.


#13

Greetings. My timing issue is this. All my westside work is done at 06:00. I am starting my first epistane cycle with proper support and PCT (nola) but was wondering about daily timing ingestion ???

Am I better off taking the first dose at 05:15 when I awake and the others spaced evely throughout the day. Or am I better off using my off day training schedule as my daily intake timing starting at 08:00 and then spacing them evenly ??

I am currently at the following places 385dead, 325squat and 205bench @ 192# BW with 11% BF.
What could I expect over the next 4-8 weeks STRENGTH wise with proper sleep, training and nutrition (about220-250g protien intake). Thank you ALL for your generosity and input.
Trailer36 and Bonez please comment if you could as I love your in your face style...