T Nation

First Cycle / NO Results

So I’m sure ya’ll have heard this one before, and I’m pretty sure what you’re all gonna say about it, but I want to check and see if maybe someone else has had a similar experience.

I got my first roid stack after I heard prosteroids were on their way out. Here’s what I’m on (note, dosage is not constant throughout my cycle- I’ve “eased” on to them, and will ease off of them):

DBOL - 20 mg/day
SUSTANON - 125 mg + 200 mg DECA (injected in tandum every 3 days)

I’m on week 5 and have noticed absolutely nothing in the way of side effects (good or bad).

Here’s the real kicker: I’ve up’d my protein intake, and have been more diligant in getting to the gym. Even without roids, I was expecting some gains from this. I even researched and follow a new workout plan:

Day 1: quads & calfs (squats, etc)
Day 2: lats & shoulders (pullups, etc)
Day 3: biceps & chest (bench, etc)
Day 4: hams & calfs (deadlifts, etc)
5-7: off

I admit I have been able to add a little on my lifts, but definately below my expectations. I lift to failure, and I can honestly say that I’ve been lifting as intensely as I ever have (I’ve been getting some joint pain, which may be due to the steroids more so than improper technique).

Anyway, I’ve been at a plateau for a while, so I thought steroids would boost me out of it. Instead they just seem to leave me with a sore ass. Am I being impatient, or should I see results by now? (I’ve been taking dbol because supposedly that is suppose to have immediate results)

Honestly, I have seen better results on Mag-10 (I usually gain 10 pounds per 2 week cycle of Mag-10, but break out into a rash near the end).

My old routine was this:

day 1: biceps, triceps, shoulders
day 2: calfs, hams, quads
day 3: chest, lats
day 4: off
repeat.

I’ve been working out for 5 years.
age 25/175lbs/5’10/~22% bf.

[quote]PHattiE wrote:
…I’ve been taking dbol because supposedly that is suppose to have immediate results
[/quote]

like what, a change in the amount of body water you carry (upwards)? the ‘gains’ are also lost just as quick.

bro, I would have gotten my bf down a lot more before commencing w/ aas…The lack of gains COULD be attributed to bogus gear, because even w/ the small amounts that you’re using, you should have SOME h2o retention, your glycogen stores should be saturated, and nitrogen retention should be high. Are you keeping calories up?

MK

ok for real your stats are no where near in need of AAS and you really should take Mikes advise and get rid of some bf and get your diet dialed in before you try this again.

If you have been training for five years and your stats are, 175lbs/5’10/~22% bf, then you should beat up who ever has been teaching you how to train and eat. Take the next year or 2 to get your diet, training and knowledge in order while getting up to around 200lbs and 10-12%bf and then come back to this part of the forum and someone will deffinantly help you out with putting a good cycle together. Read the steriod newbie thread and then get to all the dieting and training articles this website has to offer you and it should set you on a better path. Good luck…
DA

[quote]Darkangel wrote:
ok for real your stats are no where near in need of AAS
If you have been training for five years and your stats are, 175lbs/5’10/~22% bf, then you should beat up who ever has been teaching you how to train and eat.

You crack me up bro…I was thinking the same thing, I just didn’t want to bust his balls.
When I first started AAS (2yrs. ago) I weighed 205 lbs. 9%BF…Now I’m up to 237 10%bf…So there’s something to be said for maximizing you gentic potential to the greatest degree before touching AAS…Granted I could have probably gained a dozen more lbs. LBM, but this would have been over the course of several years.

MK

Yeh maybe you’re right, but in my own defense, I use to weigh 135 when I started training. I gained 40 pounds in 2 years… then I leveled off.

I’ve already paid good money for trainers and have so much literature, it is getting to be repetitious.

I definitely shoulda gone in with lower bf tho, no question.

Anyway, my point is, I wasn’t making any gains, and I don’t recall reading anywhere that for effective steroid use, you should weigh at least 200 lbs. This is a question about breaking my plateau. Going another 3 years at no gains didn’t appeal to me.

All the hype about AAS, I thought for sure they’d bust me through. Clearly this is a training/nutrition issue tho, because I should be gaining weight without the drugs.

Well, I’ll try stacking on more calories and see what happens. But if not even a pimple breaks out by the end of this cycle, I’m gonna be pissed :wink:

Thanks for the comments

see dude that is lack of Knowledge right there.
Lots of bros never even get acne from roids but tons get some when they go off. Acne has a lot to do with an imbalance in your hormones witch a well designed cycle should not give you.

Yeah i am a little harsh but you are taller than me and smaller than me and I think at your height 200lbs around 10-15%bf should not be that hard after 5 years of proper training and nutrition. So yeah bump up the calories, read some more from this site about training/nutrition, beat up your trainers, and I can’t remember if you have anti-e’s(hope you do). Good luck getting big.
DA

How much are you eating? If you are not consuming massive kCals, you are not going to put anything on. Taking more protein is fine but you need more calories period. I don’t know your size/makeup but probably 4000 to 5000 per day.

In all honesty, there are 2 reasons why you’re not making any gains.

First, and here is where my strongest opinion lies, is that you are NOT using ENOUGH AAS. Mathematically speaking, you are only taking 250mg of Test a week, with 400mg of Deca, and 20mg of D-bol a day. Wow, to me that is low. All you are doing is suppressing your natural hormones. I would up the D-bol to atleast 30-35mg per day, with atleast 500mg of Test per week. This is taking into consideration that this is your first cycle.

Second, as some others have said, your stuff may be fake (but that’s a shot in the dark).

Let me point of something more specific. You are using Sustanon, having a 4 Test blend, each with a different ester. YOU ARE RECEIVING MINIMAL AMOUNTS, by the time each Test releases itself into your blood stream. Let’s take the propionate ester for example (because this is the fastest acting ester in the Sustanon blend):

You are taking 125mg shots (which tells me you are taking half an ampule each time). There is 30mg of propionate in a FULL ampule. So mathematically, you are only taking 15mg of prop at each SHOT! This is MINIMAL! Your body produces more than that naturally. And it’s likely that the prop will be gone even before the phenylpropionate, the isocaproate, and the decanoate esters even kick in (which you are only getting 30mg, 30mg, and 50mg of each respectively with each 125mg shot). Does this make sense?

I hope this helps. Bottom line is, up your dosages, and make damn sure your caloric intake is high. Good luck.

Dude your dosages are plenty high for a first time juicer. 400mg of Deca, 250 of test a week AND 20mg D-bol? That’s plenty. Your problems are the very high bodyfat AND probably fake stuff. If you gained much easier with Mag-10, this stuff has to be fake.

Do you “feel” anything? 20mg of d-bol daily should definitely be felt by a first time juicer.

Mass is right, your doses are low and you shouldn’t have eased on to them. You should have started with a decent front load and run at least 500mg of sustenon a week. Some of the esters in sustenon are longer acting, same goes with deca, so they can take a while to kick in.

Stop now, take your anti-e, read more about half lives and front loading and try a more intelligent cycle when you have your stuff together.

Let this bro’s experience be a lesson to newbies…Make sure you have a base of knowledge in training and nutrition before starting AAS. Oh and be aware of what you’re putting into your body as it may be bunk gear.

MK

Naw the dbol is a joke. Those tiny pink pills look like sugar caps, and do about the same thing. I’ve noticed nothing from them at all.

From the sources I went to, they all told me to be careful since my stack was a bit high for a first time user.

I’m pretty confident that I am getting 4000 cals a day, but I haven’t been focusing on it. My trainer said to stay off the high calorie shakes because he said your body can only handle so much at a time. So I’ve been trying to do it through food. it’s hard to down 4000 cals of food, and not “cheat” (cheese pizzas, whoppers etc).

I spent a good month researching this stuff, and waited 2 additional months after getting the juice before starting. I even got reasurrance from other users (though, they told me to drop the dbol, which I didn’t). Maybe I shoulda gone here first. But even if I don’t get much gains, I’ve learned a hell of a lot so far, so I got no regrets.

No way I’m stopping mid-cycle (I’m sure the juice is legit: “intended for vetinarian use only” stamped all over it :)). If I stop now, I’m throwing the stuff away. I’d rather see it through.

One last thing: "Acne has a lot to do with an imbalance in your hormones witch a well designed cycle should not give you. "

You got me a little confused here man. My understanding of AAS is that it is suppose to throw your hormones off to hell. If there is a steroid stack out there that doesn’t throw internal equilibrium red flags, I’d like to hear about 'em. I got a 15 page report on different steroid stacks, and they clearly show that in most cases, the lower the risks, the lower the expected gains.

Re what PHattiE wrote:

  1. of course the dbol is fake

  2. a bit high, but seems that the dosages are 0 if you see no gains

  3. how confident, lets see a three day meal plan with everything that you put in your mouth weighed out on a scale. if you are doing everything else right, then you would probably still see gains at 4000 cal. it has been my experience that even highly educated (and i’m not just talking school education, but applied experience) and informed people still miss their calorie intake either too high or too low without some type of monitoring. and lest you think i am being overly zealous, berardi himself likes to use three day dietary reviews to assess clients nutritional status (where do you think i got it from?)

  4. just because something has vet stamped on it means nothing other than whoever made it had it put on. its not like there are divisions of the FDA or health canada for that matter that deal with underground juice to make sure they are labelled right. most labs underdose and replace more expensive compounds like tren with NPP or prop. even many legit vet companies have been know to underdose (usually mexican). as another example there is a ‘brand’ called animal power, they have a web site and all that even looks better than most legit companies (reports are that their special delivery matrix has too much BA in it making me think that this is underground, either that or they just plain suck if they are a real company). if you don’t stop now you could be throwing away your health, who knows what you are injecting.

  5. acne is related to hormones and hormonal balance for sure, but it still depends on YOUR GENETICS. everyone is different, some are succecptible, some are not.

  6. there are no know steroids that have zero effect. there are some like anavar and methenolone that are very mild and cause little suppression short term. and then slightly more suppressive, but still low would be winny and boldenone, nandrolone depending on dose and ancilliaries.

phatie, i used to weight 130 too, and I hit a plateau at 180, after, I start eating for real, training with more brain and I got up to 215 at 12%bf, I was not so big (for me big is 300lbs) but I had a good background of weight and also strenght.
You can still take a lot of weight on the scale without roids, I assure you, just eat more, train correctly and you’ll get up to 215 easily.

Well, that is my opinion.

STACK

[quote]STACK wrote:
phatie, i used to weight 130 too, and I hit a plateau at 180, after, I start eating for real, training with more brain and I got up to 215 at 12%bf, I was not so big (for me big is 300lbs) but I had a good background of weight and also strenght.
You can still take a lot of weight on the scale without roids, I assure you, just eat more, train correctly and you’ll get up to 215 easily.

Well, that is my opinion.

STACK[/quote]

I agree completely…

almost anyone 5’8 or taller can get to a moderately lean 200 lbs with intelligent training, recovery, and nutritional plan…you have to be patient also …you’re not going to go from 150 lbs to 200 lbs in a year…

I like this ‘litmus’ test…if people suspect that you’re on anabolics but you’re not…that’s when you know you’re ready for your first cycle…

in my opinion…anabolics should be ‘icing on the cake’…not a crutch for the lazy and impatient…

everyone hits plateaus (even AAS users)…learning how to break through them is one of the most important lessons… change your workout routine, re-evaluate your diet, change the days you workout. Are you getting enough sleep? Are you over-trained (take a week off and then go back in and test your strength…if you’re stronger there’s a good chance you’re over-trained)?