So, before I even get into my cycle, here are my stats:
5’8
227lbs (the most I have got up to was 235lbs and maybe 14-15% body fat)
13-14% body fat (I can easily cut down to 9-10% and weigh around 210-215, done it before, have pics to prove it)
30 years old
I have been lifting since I was 14, and at 15 I got really into it and never looked back.
I have done pro hormones in the past years ago, and I have done some SARMs before too.
Everyone always comments that I am huge, but I don’t feel big and don’t think I look big.
Current lifts: Bench 315x12 Squat: 405x10 Deadlift: 405x4 (i have 2 herniated disc’s from years ago so I don’t go heavy on dead lifts)
I am looking for feedback on my cycle I have done loads of research and think I am at an age and knowledge level to where I can take this and actually be able to do what is necessary to make it effective.
Cycle:
Weeks 1-4
Dbol 40mg/day-split into two doses or more…having a short half life I feel like 10mg doses might be better?
Weeks 1-12
Test E 400mg/wk-- split into 2 doses
Deca 400mg/wk-- split into 2 doses
Arimidex 1 mg EOD (Thinking of lowering it to .5 and taken in the afternoon or morning/also will lower if I am shutting my E2 down too much or raise if its not enough)
PCT:
Weeks 13-14
HCG 2000ui a week split
Weeks 15-16
Nolva 40mg once a day
Arimidex .25 mg EOD
Week 17-18
Nolva 20mg once a day
Arimidex .25 E3D (maybe lower it more?)
I will have Caber on hand 8 pills @ .5MGs each just in case the deca sides start creeping up.
Should I get more of this before I start?
I will have bloods done before I start for hormone and lipids. I will also have blood work done every 3 weeks while on cycle to ensure my body is okay and adjust anything as needed.
This will be a dirty bulk as it is my first cycle and all I want to do is get as big and as strong as humanly possible. My aim is to eat 4kcal a day, 350g Protein and kill it in the gym. I will be taking supporting supplements on and after cycle for body health. After I am done, maybe while on PCT or after, I will start taking Clen. During/after PCT I will be completely overhauling my diet and counting macros to lean out slowly while trying to maintain as much of the gains.
My end goals are to weigh 255lbs+ before going on my PCT. I would like to keep my body fat the same if possible, but if not that’s fine.
Well I think that is about it for all the info. If you guys want more or want to know why I am running certain things just ask. I will have an answer.
Thank you
I figured I would get asked to post haha
Below are the pics. I was not on anything during that time. That was purely just diet and working out. I did cardio 3x a week after my workouts as well.
@iron_yuppie can you help this guy out? He looks better than 99% of people who come in this subforum, but his proposed first cycle is way too much (especially the AIs, given his general leanness), maybe you can set him straight. I know what advice I’d give, but haven’t taken AAS yet, so I stay away from direct dosage advice.
I appreciate the comment. I know you say you haven’t done any AAS, but I was thinking the same thing about the AI. I had it 1mg based on advice from a friend who takes AAS and is now starting to compete. But he recommended 1mg EOD, for 300mg test, 400mg Tren, and 60mg Anadrol. I don’t feel comfortable taking tren or anadrol as a starting out cycle mainly due to ‘tren rage’…my girl was with someone else that was on it and they were abusive. So I figured I would go with this.
I am okay lowering to 300mg Test and 300mg Deca, but dbol I want to keep at 40mg only because of how big I already am (at least weight wise), I feel like It would be better to start off at 40mg. But those are my thoughts. That is why I am on this forum, just looking for advice before I start anything. I have all the compounds already. But before I pin I want my ducks in a row. And while I know a lot of people say run a test only cycle first, I would rather not do that. 200mg of test is enough to be anabolic so I could go that low if necessary. Again, just looking for advice.
500 mg test E for 10 weeks, nolva at 10mg per day, no AI unless absolutely necessary, no deca, no dbol, nolva at 40/40/20/20 starting 2 weeks after last shot. You just have too much in there. Do not take deca on your first cycle, and if you search for “deca dick” on these forums, you’ll see people who have ruined their lives with that compound. Start with a simple cycle so you can add more compounds in future cycles. None of that other shit is going to help you right now.
I don’t know much about winstrol - I’ve heard good and bad things. I’d wait for the guy that I tagged to show up to answer that one. I know this, though - we have bodybuilders, world class strongmen, and endocrinologists on here, and none of them would tell you to take deca on a first cycle. This is the gold standard first cycle around these parts. You will have through-the-roof supraphysiological test levels, and you will achieve superhuman results with a proper diet and good training regimen. Just see how your body reacts to this stuff before adding stuff.
I totally agree with @flappinit. The cycle he laid out is spot on. If you already have the deca and dbol save it for next time. As lean as you are it highly unlikely you would need any AI. The cycle you proposed is a very solid and proven cycle, however there are lots of people with terrible horror stories regarding deca. I have personally used it 3 times with no issues. I’ve never used more than 400mgs/week but can honestly say it’s one of my least favorite compounds.
Impressive build by the way.
This concerns me. You are in fact huge. You look tremendous and you deserve every ounce of that muscle. You obviously have worked your ass off for a decade and a half. The fact that you don’t think you look huge is a sign of something that lurks deeper in your mind. You should genuinely consider talking to someone about those feelings and see if you can’t get that sorted out.
Now, as to your cycle…
Drop the deca. It’s too hard to pinpoint side effects with multiple first-time compounds, and deca can be a blessing or a curse, depending on the user. Best to take it slower at first. Make the cycle as easy as you can. It’s really easy to screw it up if you make it more complicated. I feel similarly about dbol. It can be a pain to control your e2 on any cycle, but dbol magnifies that effect. If you are set on using it then I’d say start lower and adjust your AI accordingly. But the official recommendation is to do test only your first run. Go 10 or 12 weeks (probably 12 for you, for a few reasons) and don’t go nutty with your AI. You might not need any more than .25mg adex twice a week. Or you might need a lot more. No way to know until you’re into it for a few weeks. But starting low is better simply because higher e2, while sometimes unpleasant, is not as detrimental to muscle growth as low e2 is. Estrogen is highly anabolic, remember. You need a healthy amount of it to grow.
You look great bro! You obviously work hard and have great genetics in general. Iron gave you some great advice.
If you really want to add a oral and its something you have your mind set on my advice is gonna be a bit bias. I dont like wet bulking compounds like dbol. Especially sense it converts to estrogen. Im a big proponent of adding a dry oral at the end of your cycle say the last 4-6 weeks. By this time you have been running the test for 8 weeks you know what sides are from test you know how your body handles estrogen conversion. So i see nothing wrong with adding winny or anavar at the end. You obviously know what your doing in the gym and in the kitchen your not some rookie jumping on gear to get major gainzzz real fast normally i wouldn’t suggest this but your situation is a bit different
DISCLAIMER : irons advice is still the best. You cant go wrong with keeping it simple with just some test
Okay, so I will take most of your advice. I am still going to run the DBOL only because I want to get as much out of this as my first cycle as I can. I will lower the dose to 20mg and raise accordingly. If I am having sides that I can’t handle or having trouble with E2 then I will drop the DBOL. If all goes well, i will raise it 10mg a week up to 40mg max. I will run it the first 4 weeks. I will stick with 400mg a week of test, I have enough to run 500mg for 12 weeks. But I will keep it at 400mg for 12 weeks. I will start taking my AI on the 2nd day of DBOL @ .25 AI E3D and lower or increase as necessary.
How far into the cycle do you think I should get blood work done again? I was thinking every 4 weeks?
Do you think my PCT is fine? Do you think it will be necessary to run HCG the two weeks following my last pin to help kick start my PCT? I know HCG is LH suppressant which is why I don’t want to run it on PCT, just the two weeks before to help normalize my nuts. Do you think it will be necessary to even do the AI with the nolva at that point?
I really appreciate your advice. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
Also, I appreciate all the positive feed back. I will be keeping a log on this specific thread if you guys care to follow and let me know your thoughts. Once I hear back from @iron_yuppie about my PCT I will post up the entire cycle. I will also post all my bloods, all initiate measurements, all lifting stats, and Body Fat % after I get it tested.
Pct should be Nolva for four weeks, broken down to daily doses of 40mg to start for two weeks, then 20mg for the last two. No AI during that time. HCg is up to you. If you run it the last two weeks between your final test pin and the start of pct you may get additional recovery benefit. But that’s your call. It isn’t strictly necessary.
Man if I could only convince you not to do it. Some of us, like myself, f’ed with our hormones and are stuck on TRT for life. Constant balancing act. I’m a fellow shorty and my guess is you don’t feel big because you’re 5’8". Steroids won’t change that. If I had your genetics and work ethic I wouldn’t risk my health and HPTA balance. That being said, this should be an interesting log to follow. I hope you get what youre looking for.
Okay, so here is what I am looking to do.
Weeks 1-12
400mg Test E (split 200mg tue/thur)
AI .25 mg E3D, ajusting as needed
Weeks 1-4
Dbol 20mg ramping to 40mg depending on side effects and E control
Weeks 13-14
HCG 1000ui twice a week
Weeks 15-19
Nolva 40/40/20/20/10
I am considering starting week 12 I will run CLEN 1 week on 1 Week off. During this time I will switch my diet back to a clean maintenance diet as to help with the cut and keep as much muscle as possible. Though this may not be necessary at all. I just know that dbol and test can cause bloating. Thought this might help speed getting rid of that and getting back to being lean or leaner. What are your thoughts?
I will be taking bloods before I go on and then every 4 weeks on cycle and through my PCT.
Along with one the week after I finish PCT.
My goals is see where everything is at and continually adjust as necessary and get my HPTA balance back to pre-cycle. I do not want to end up on TRT.
