T Nation

First Cycle in a Year


#1

Hey guys this is my first cycle in a year (2nd overall) and I am going to try and keep it as simple as possible. I have test prop and was wondering if I can go E3D or just stick to EOD. Haven't decided if I am going to go 500mg or 600mg a week. If I go 125mg EOD and start on a monday then some weeks I will only be getting 375mg correct (sorry if this is a retarded question, the first week then week two I would go T R S and not again til monday, hence only 375 in that second week?)

1-8 - Test Prop 125mg EOD, I would like to frontload as well, so is it 500 x 2 / 7 + 125 = 267mg?
1-8 - Adex half a tab EOD, this may seem like a lot to some of you but I am very sensitive to high levels of estrogen, If I decide to frontload should I also frontload the adex?

Might run hCG twice a week at 500iu's but not sure yet, I understand that its only 8 weeks and prop is a short ester but some people really feel as though they bounce back better with hcg run throughout.

PCT - Nolva
40/40/20/20

Stats: 6 ft, 210-215
Goals: gain about 15-20lbs of lean body mass

Need anymore information feel free to ask, thanks


#2

Don't worry about the days of the week thing. That all balances out. The important aspect is that you maintain whichever scehule you decide on. I would go ED with prop for maximally even blood level.

125mg EOD = 437.5mg/w only.

75mg/d = 525mg/w

or if you must: 150mg EOD = 525mg/w

Your frontload calc looks good, so you can plug in other scenarios.

Start PCT about 3 days after last shot of prop.

FL for 75 mg/d = 225mg on Day 1
FL for 150mg EOD = 300mg on Day 1

If you run hCG (not really neccessary) the standard is 250iu EOD.


#3

If you're shooting 125mg EOD, you're getting 437.5mg/week. (125x7/2)

I think you should shoot the prop ED, but I know EOD works. What is your reasoning for EOD?

EDIT: I post too slow, didn't mean to echo Dynamo.


#4

I completely understand the ED reasoning but I just don't think I could handle ED injections, I hear what you are saying about the dose as well, I think I will go with 150 EOD. As for the adex, if I am going to frontload on that first day should I also frontload the adex? Does hcg have to be EOD, I was under the impression I could get away with 2 shots a week no?


#5

You should check out the thread on the 2-3 weeker/Bill Roberts cycle(s). They are made for TEST P.

Best of Luck!


#6

I am not quite sure that the 2-3 week cycle has enough research for me and I just don't think it would be as effective as a typical 8 or 10 weeker, no offense.


#7

Some study suggest that from every HCG shot, the release pattern is about 72 hours, so that's why some doctors prescribe HRT patients 500 iu HCG e3d or 2x week to keep endo test production going as well as sperm production. (on top of the regular sust/TC/te injection) You will probably get about 50mg of test released from your natty. Every bit of test helps aye? :slightly_smiling:

One study showed slight desensitization of leydig cells after 23 weeks of HCG @ 1500 EOD. What does it mean?
You can do year long cycles like some pros , with regular HCG injections. Just change the drugs every 8 weeks or so to keep growing. Natty still works, while on cycle, and make babies all you want.

2-3 week cycles are great for newbies to have a taste of steroid, without stocking up on load of drugs, AI, SERMS etc. Excellent for light users that want the extra kick every now and then.
But if you want to gain some serious mass, look jacked. You have to do longer cycles.

From my experience, I stop growing after 8 weeks of any test cycle (unless I increase the dosage after 8 weeks or swith drugs. Some people swear by longer cycles. So it's up to you. I suggest you use HCG from day one, 500iu 2x week, it doesn't make too much difference compared to 200 eod, but alot easier to plan your injections.

Now if you want 15-20 pound of LBM, you can probably make it. While extra glycogen storage + water, is LBM. But it is only transient hypertrophy, not contractile protein. 15-20 pounds of real muscle takes a long time to accumulate. So be realistic with your goals. I beleive the extra muscle you gain is relatively easy to keep, but the extra glycogen/water will be gone no matter what you do.

I would do the following cycle.

Week 1-7 Test Prop 350 mg/week , 100 EOD, with front load
Week 8-14 Test Prop 525 mg/week, 150 EOD
Week 1-15 HCG 500iu 2x week
Week 1-15 Adex 0.5mg-1 ED
Week 16-19 Adex 0.5 EOD
Week 16-19 Clomid 25-50 mg ED

350 mg of prop is equivilant to 400mg test-c, and 525mg to 640mg. With a frontload, I'll start gaining by week 2. After 7 weeks of that, things will slow down, but vola! I increase the dosage by 50%. So I keep on growing. By week 13 things start to slow down again, I give it another week to "solidify".

So that's a nice 12 weeks of actual growth. Compared to an odinary 12 week test-c cycle, which is really 14.5 week of supression. Test -C kick in by week 4, and I stop to responds at week 10 at the latest. Result? only 6 weeks of growth. So I hope you can see the logic in it. So start a little lower, and you can have the option to extend it/ bump up dosage later on. The ligher/smaller you are, the more you can gain. mm, think post is getting too long, so i will just stop here


#8

Great post - all of it - but i loved this bit! This is soo true, and so misunderstood.

People forget just how fucking hard it is to build MUSCLE even on AAS.. sure they can get bigger - but to add dry tissue is a long and hard road.

B


#9

Frontloading about 1mg Adex on Day 1 will help get blood level of anastrazole to desired level quickly. Then lower dosage to 0.5mg EOD and adjust from there. You can start hCG at 250iu 2x/w and adjust according to plumpness of testes. Add in another interval per week if this becomes an issue.


#10

I appreciate the advice meph but I wanted to keep this cycle short so extending to 15 weeks is just not in the cards, plus I doubt I have that much test prop. I understand all of your other points, I have to be honest though I never lost anything from my first cycle, not one pound. Maybe that means I didn't gain a ton but surprisingly I didn't lose any weight, if I am still going to do 8 weeks what are peoples personal experiences with hcg and recovery?


#11

HCG is not absolutely required, but highly recommended. If you get everything together, you may be able to gain 5 pounds of dry tissue, which is quite a lot of muscle.
Regarding the AI issue, just keep in mind that for HRT guys running 200mg t-c /week + HCG, AI is usally dosed at 0.5mg eod. This keep the estrogen around 25 , which is a good number. If you are on a 500mg/week prop cycle (600 mg of t-c equivilant), I would expect the estrogen level to be a lot higher. You may still feel good at 0.5mg eod of adex, no gyno, etc, but your estrogen may be somewhere around 40, 50, even above normal range, but you can't feel it. High estro + high DHT = prostate growth
So rather than using minimal level of AI to keep sides away, I actually prefer to use maximum amout of AI that i can handle, without driving estrogen too low. So if you can afford it, do a blood test every week. on the morning of non injection day.


#12

I was under the impression that .5mg eod was still a relatively high dosage? Are you suggest .5 ED?


#13

Individuals vary quite a bit in the amount they aromatize and in their sensitivity to AIs. Different formulas of anastrazole vary in their potency too. A good starting point is 0.5mg eod and then adjust according to blood tests or well documented symptoms of either elevated or too low E2.


#14

I use 0.75mg Ed with my cycles..


#15

depending on how much i use on cycle I use between .5 and .75mg adex a day

and frontloading is not needed with it I dont think because of the nature and half life of the drug itself.
might be wrong though


#16

I used 1mg ED with 500 test-e and 30mg of dbol, and only 0.5 mg ED with test only. IMO The synthetic estro from dbol + regular estrogen from aromatisation of test result in a "POTENT" estrogen stack.


#17

x2million. This is too true!


#18

Just want to throw an update in there, I just ended my third week today and I am up 18 pounds. I started adex at .5mg EOD and have had to bump it to .75 ED. I seemed to be storing extra weight in my chest area, I have a mild case of gyno and want to make sure it stays that way but it seems like I'm just getting more fatty tissue there, maybe i'm crazy though. Strength is way up and I am eating like there is no tomorrow.


#19

Thinking of adding albuterol the final two weeks, would this be counter-productive?