T Nation

First Cycle in 15 Years

I ran a few cycles in my early twenties (after plenty of research) went reasonably well and no sides (can’t remember the doses);

Bulking was Sus, Deca and Tren.
Cutting was Var and Winny.
PCT was Nolva (prob ran this throughout cycle as well due to worries about gyno) and Chlomid.

Looking at running another one in the next couple of weeks so been researching and sourcing gear and as been a while brain a little foggy so just wanted to run sample cycle past you guys with a few questions.


39 years old
165lb 12% BF

Bulking cycle
W 1-4 40mg ED Turinabol
W 1-10 300mg E5D Test E
W 2-12 0.25mg EOD Adex

W 11-12 60mg ED Nolva
W 13-14 40mg ED Nolva
W 15 20mg ED Nolva

Now the questions;

  1. Does the general cycle look okay?

  2. Is 40mg of Turinabol enough or should make 50-60mg?

  3. Test E at 300mg every 5 days should yield roughly 500mg per week (and that would be Mon - Sat - Thu etc…)?

  4. Any benefit of adding in Proviron to this cycle?

  5. PCT should I add Chlomid and HCG if so what doses?



  1. what’s your end goal? Lean and mean, big and bulky?
  2. do you have any recent blood work to establish a baseline hormone panel?
  3. based on the results of #2, you may need to consider the possibility of TRT as opposed to a cycle. A cycle isnt going to fix your brain fog after you get off.

I’ve spent last 26 weeks cutting down as was out of shape so want to add some mass and then cut for summer.

I’ve ordered a hormone test so gonna do bloods first just need wait for it to come and send back and get processed.

Sorry meant brain fog with regards to steroid cycles, PCT and info as not looked into it properly since last cycles years ago… I’m mentally fine lol


Most guys here will tell you to drop the Tbol to make sure you know which compound is doing what. I tend to agree, but in your case I would suggest you stack Test and Masteron. You will like it, I’m sure.

I’d run at least 500 mg test/week and maybe around 300 Masteron ethanate. You can pin both every 3.5 days in the same syringe. You will also like the libido kick from the mast and it will tighten you up nicely. Run about 12 weeks minimum.

I’m not a PCT guy since I cruise and blast but I think the consensus is Nolvadex over Clomid. Clomid can have some harsh sides when compared to Nolva.

Thanks for the info much appreciated.

The Mast-E looks good as hopefully provide some small anti-e benefit which was what I was considering the Proviron for and whilst slightly trickier to get hold (from a decent lab) should be considerably cheaper than running the Proviron at needed doses through cycle.

Was considering the Tbol as a kick start, don’t want to go near Dbol due to aromatising effects. May save it for a future cycle and just run the Mast-E instead.

Gonna stockpile some different type pharma grade anti-e’s so have on hand i.e. Aromasin and Letrozole in addition to the Adex.

Can’t wait to get bloods back to see what natural T / E is as I’ve always been prone to weight gain since a child and definitely sensitive to carbs but will be interesting to see if have naturally have high E. I can add muscle fairly easily though and am a hairy bastard so maybe high T and E. I’ve always just thought I was typical endomorph.

The gyno though had since childhood and even when in my teens dieted severely down to like 8 stone still had fat around chest but my dad did also so likely genetic (luckily my sons haven’t inherited it), most of it seems to be fat as opposed to gland but there must be some gland there that causes fat build up.

It’s caused me loads of body image issues over years so definitely going abroad for surgery and get sorted once and for all but though may as well do a cycle first as if anti-e’s fail and it gets worse is being sorted anyway.

Does anyone know if there will be any massive benefit in adding HCG to this cycle?

I know their are some benefits but the estrogen aromatization that cannot be controlled by the AI’s (or SERMS) bothers me and if can still restart HPTA after cycle with Nolva and/or Chlomid then maybe safer option.

Man there is a lot of different opinions out there about hcg. When and how to run it. Some people say run it thru cycle to keep the jewels plump some say end of cycle last couple weeks before pct. Then some say to run it during pct. Whats interesting is each of the groups seem to have a good argument (altho the run thru cycle seems kinda useless to me unless your doing it for esthetics)

If all your worried about is getting the sack back up and moving after cycle then I think normal pct with nolva is fine. The side effects that can potentially come with hcg just don’t seem to out weigh the supposed benefits in my eyes

You know I’ve never done hcg and unless you are worried about infertility, then I would not add more stuff to the mix. I have not had major shrinkage but my wife doesnt care about my nutsack. What she likes is that I am responsive to her for sex (i.e. I get great erections)

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3 kids in and the Missus doesn’t want anymore lol… not to bothered about size of nutsack so if Nolva PCT should bring back natural test, albeit maybe slightly longer than with HCG it’s worth it so as to avoid anything that could aromatize and cause gyno.

Trying to source the Mast-E a pain wanted to get Pharmacom as heard good things, but source getting other stuff from not got it… they’ve got SIS labs but hear mixed things about them some say injectables okay but orals not great.

Still tempted with the TBol for the kick start as well (which know shouldn’t as to keep simple) but want to get straight out of blocks… then started thinking about front loading some Test-P but not sure if the TBol would be safer due to non-aromatising.

Can I ask why cycle and pct at age 39 versus blast and cruise?

Just realised put age wrong at 39, it’s 38 on Friday feels like I’ve been 38 for ages though lol (think it’s because the missus is 6 months older, not that 1 year makes much difference)

I hadn’t considered or even heard about it until reading about it on the forums recently as last time used AAS was over 15 years ago so only in early 20’s and hadn’t come across concept.

TBH I am probably doing this cycle a little earlier than planned but I want to do it prior to the gyno operation I am going to get done later this year (plagued me all my life since about age 10 and regardless of being fat, skinny, bulky or fairly ripped always had fat on my chest so very self conscious). Doing it now allows me to see how gyno prone I am with AAS and dial my AI in with a safety net of having the operation regardless.

It is something | may consider I suppose I can see what my natural bloods say when they come back and that will provide some insight into my natural t / e levels. I can also see how I respond to the cycle, get some extra Test-E along with the PCT stuff and make a decision as near the end of the 12 weeks.

I would however be curious to see how my body and bloods responds to the PCT as at moment was considering possibly 2 cycles this year, the initial bulking one and then a cutting cycle.

However I am definitely intrigued with the blast and cruise what do people do anti-e wise whilst cruising?

That is based on the belief system of the person in question. Some of us dont do anything, some of us use tamoxifen (Nolvadex), and some of us use anastrozole (arimidex).

Thanks for all your help guys been very informative.

First half of gear hopefully arriving today then next half next week (never ordered from source before or used BTC so wanted to split).

Bloods should be back by then also. Any recommendations for calories (I can break down macros from there).

I’m only 165 lb and don’t want to go to crazy as don’t want to add too much fat but don’t want to waste cycle by not eating enough, will be keeping the cardio up at probs 500 cal a day normally hit 600-800 cal when bulking and 1000-1200 cal when cutting (non at weekends though).

Cardio prob obsessively high but prefer moving to not eating and metabolism tends to be fairly sluggish.

If you really want to gain some good mass, then I would drop the cardio. The mere fact of supra physiological levels of Test will increase your protein synthesis and decrease your bodyfat.

You have a chance to gain some good weight here. I would focus on that. Keep the weight as long as you can after cycle with higher calories, then after a couple of months post cycle, you can start to add cardio again.

Never had an issue. And have always found it to be 100% better than the shit from overseas

Many get away with using no AI on a cruise. I can’t. My trt regimen still requires some amount of arimidex. Other guys can go without and have no issues.

Here is a trough level for me taking 250 mg/week of Test and no AI.

I’m gonna try dropping it to say 200-300 cal a few times a week as don’t want to lose cardio fitness as been running for past 5 years. When I start cycle next week will taper it down over 4 weeks so as not to drop it off all of a sudden. Then when the test kicks in should be a lot less cardio to maximise gains and then can calibrate if need to increase depending on how much fat is gained.

Thanks good to see a reference… sent blood off today had to wait till could do it in morning but was a massive pain as took ages getting blood flow with lancet (finger prick). Then at gym doing shoulders couple hours later finger kept dripping blood from several holes lol.