T Nation

First Cycle. Hows it Look?


HI everyone. Im new here this being my first post so let me start off by saying that there is a welth of information on this site that has been very helpfull to me in seting up my first aas cycle as I have been poking around on here for some time. I have ran a few PH cycles so I am not new to the world of anabolics as I have experience with support sups and PCTs. Here are my stats.

Age 29
Wt 165
Ht 6'0

Im planning to start this cycle next month after my vesectomy sugery.

test e 500mg/w split doses sun. and wens. 12weeks
dbol 40mg ed first 4 weeks
Adex .25mgeod 14 weeks

PCT 2 weeks after last dose
Torem 120first 3 days then 90/60/60/30

Thanks guys let me know how it looks.


Did you read the sticky called something like : First cycle for noobies?


Yes. Read that.


What are your numbers now and what are you looking to get to? Or is it more for aesthetic purposes?


cycle looks good, thought I would not suggest orals to anyone.. I would rather see you up your test dose, but that's just me

anyways, cycle looks good. Pct with Torem has delivered mixed results, some do fine with it, others... not so good. get blood work done about a month and a half after your pct is done to see where you stand..


I was hoping you would chime in. Solid advice as always. Thanks.


don't take that arimidex unless you have a gyno flare up. best to use ancillaries as little as possible


terrible advice... absolutely awful


HAHAHAHA LMFAO coming from the guy who says "i would not recommend orals to anyone," as if every top tier bodybuilder and powerlifter out there doesn't use the hell out of orals. hey vega, my advice to you is, if you want real advice on gear check out a real gear forum like professional muscle, getbig, or gh15.

T-Nation a favorite of mine for other topics but there is some god-awful broscience that floats around on here and everyone (cough) seems to love turning it into a pissing contest for some reason. you're not going to be able to get as much weight on the bar while running that Adex because you won't have as much bloat.

More weight ultimately equals more muscle. if you have any flare ups here is the protocol i have received from an unnamed top level powerlifter, and have used it effectively: Begin a nolva baseline at 40mg a day and start Adex at 1gram and letro at 1 gram a day. In his words, "i know that sounds like a lot, but it isn't. you want to knock the shit out before it goes any further." once all symptoms are gone run that nolva baseline for a little while longer because you may have some estrogen rebound after the AI's. It would be awful advice if i told you not to worry about it at all. It's key to have it on hand.


"as if every top tier bodybuilder doesn't use the hell out of orals"... you are aware that they also "use the hell out of" support supplements and "use the hell out of" doctor visits right? Even still, Big A claims that they are basically... incredibly unhealthy despite the measures they take to preserve themselves..

you are aware that PMCChris (from PM) just had an hepatic adenoma the "size of a grapefruit" (or did he say volleyball? I don't remember) removed from his liver correct? They also took a sizeable part of his liver with it..

and my "don't use orals" suggestion was advice that I received from a few IFBB pros.. so.. they also have all said to "control your estrogen".. you should read Kaladryn's posts sometime... he is very smart. He and Shelby are co-authoring a book about health for bodybuilding

well anyways, here is some food for thought. This is why you want to control your estrogen... this may be hard to wrap your head around.. but gyno isn't the only bad thing that elevated estrogen levels can cause..

The liver is morphologically and functionally modulated by sex hormones. Long-term use of oral contraceptives (OCs) and anabolic androgenic steroids (AASs) can induce both benign (hemangioma, adenoma, and focal nodular hyperplasia [FNH]) and malignant (hepatocellular carcinoma [HCC]) hepatocellular tumors. Hepatic adenomas (HAs) are rare, benign neoplasms usually occurring in young women, the development and the complications of which have been related to the strength of OCs and the duration of their use. HA incidence has fallen since the introduction of pills containing smaller amounts of estrogens. FNH is a benign lesion, most commonly seen in young women, which is thought to represent a local hyperplastic response of hepatocytes to a vascular abnormality. Because of the female predominance and the young age at onset, a role of female hormones has been suggested. Furthermore, a large proportion of women with FNH (50-75%) are OC users. Liver hemangiomas (LHs) are the most common benign liver tumors and are seen more commonly in young adult females. The female predilection and clinical observations of LH growth under conditions of estrogenic exposure suggest a possible role for estrogen in the pathogenesis of LHs. HCC has become one of the most widespread tumors in the world in recent years, representing the sixth leading cancer and the third most common cause of death from cancer. Apart from liver cirrhosis, numerous other factors responsible for its onset have been proposed: hepatitis infections from virus B (HBV) and C (HCV), alcohol, smoking, and aflatoxin. However, regardless of etiology, chronic liver diseases progress at unequal rates in the two sexes, with the major sequelae, such as cirrhosis and HCC, being more frequent in men than in women. These epidemiological data have prompted researchers to investigate the relationship between sex hormones and liver tumors. The human liver expresses estrogen and androgen receptors and experimentally both androgens and estrogens have been implicated in stimulating hepatocyte proliferation and may act as liver tumor inducers or promoters.

I would suggest you actually have an idea of what you are talking about if you are going to try to "correct" me


also elevated estrogen causes water retention which leads to elevated blood pressure which damages numerous internal organs including the kidneys (which do not repair themselves).. and damages the blood vessels in the brain/heart etc..

so Jlederach, please stop giving advise.. there are a lot of noobs who read these threads and I would hate for one of them to take you seriously

blah blah.. etc.. moral of the story, OP take your AI


Of course a lot of your bodybuilder types use the ancillaries...they're on boatloads of everything and the kitchen sink. they NEED it. someone on 500mg of test probably isn't going to. And health for bodybuilding is cool i guess, but i'd wager that being super healthy isn't the priority of most guys in strength sports, or else they wouldn't be using mega-doses of drugs to begin with.

You can't serve two masters, and if your goal is to compete at the highest level of sport and your sport is one where drugs are the norm, health might have to take a back seat for a while. With all do respect, you are way too concerned with science and theory. I personally just need to know what works and how to use it. All the theoretical bullshit becomes a distraction after a while and it takes you away from what really matters, which is doing.


.....says the anonymous man hiding behind an avatar that is NOT him and has no photos or videos posted. i bet you weigh 165 soaking wet and are skinny fat


it's not "theoretical bullshit" when you get a chunk of your liver taken out.. some people are simply not made for aas..

for example, I can run over a gram of test without my blood pressure becoming elevated.. my buddy on the other hand became dangerously hypertensive and suffered numerous nosebleeds (every day) on half a gram only 3 weeks in (test E).. Can you imagine what that blood pressure would have done to his organs had he continued using aas for any measure of time?

in the same way, a guy on PM had liver enzymes over 1000... yes.. over 1000 and he wasn't even doing anything "ridiculous"

the point is, everyone reacts differently... so it is absolutely asinine to counsel someone to not take precautionary measures because they are running a "moderate" dose.. which 500mg is definitely not moderate btw... THAT right there, is broscience.

Gyno in and of itself is reason to take an AI.. it's a huge pain in the ass.. and you counsel the OP to only take an AI once he has it? fascinating..


how are you so sure this isn't me in my avatar?

even if I was "165 lbs soaking wet and skinny fat", based on the content in this thread, my knowledge regarding aas greatly exceeds yours, so what does it matter what I look like? your premise is flawed..


Surprisingly, i agree with your entire post, up until the last part....let me ask you...have you ever HAD gyno??? Well, the better question would be, have you had symptoms?? Because I HAVE. The symptoms arise before the actual gyno develops. You need to be aware of the symptoms and take measures before breast tissue develops, and it develops quickly, but there is a window once you start noticing the symptoms.

The only reason I had a flare up was because it was my last dose of test-C so I unwisely decided to finished out the bottle in that last dose, which was probably 200mg in a dose higher than i was used to. I went 4 months before that with no issue, and i agree literally everyone responds differently, but the point is that you have time to correct the issue once you start noticing symptoms.



you really think that Ronnie had any clue what he was doing as it applied to supplements? or do you think that he did what he was told to do.. like everyone else?

you sure do say the darnedest things lol..


^^^ Your physique and/or your numbers are your greatest credibility....lol i don't care if you know more than ronnie coleman, and you just might, but im still going to take his advice over yours because of what he's accomplished with his knowledge. Why don't you chill for a second, step away from the computer for a little, and go lift...see how it feels to not get caught up in being a know it all forum jockey


that is quite a surprise considering the aversion to science, wisdom and knowledge you have thus far demonstrated