T Nation

First Cycle. How Does It Look?


im 27 225 lbs 6'1

wk1-4 dbol 30mg a day
wk 1-12 Test E 250mg every monday and Thursday
20mg nolvadex on hand if needed

wk 1-2 40mg novladex
wk3-4 20mg

also i can get some hcg. is this necessary? I thought that is where the nolva came in for your pct?


Looks fairly spot on.

You could change PCT to start one week after the last shot. 40mg for the first few days then back to one 20mg tab each day for 2 weeks. No need to run it for 4 weeks, though no harm in doing it either.

HCG would be used during a cycle, not after. At your age and that dose you can get away without it, but if you have it run it during. HCG and nolva are two totally separate drugs. HCG is used to stir up your Leydig cells in the testes, nolva prevents bitch tits or gyno while on cycle. Sounds like you need to do a little more research on that side of things.

Since this is a first cycle you can ditch the Dbol as well and even get away with less test. A simple cycle like that is easy to "track", seeing what effect the test is having (positives and side effects). Later cycles you can fiddle with other stuff. No need to push and rush. Nice simple cycle to start, building from there.


Between that recommendation and the absence of a recommendation for an AI instead of a SERM on cycle Im not sure you should be the first person giving advice to a first timer.


Im sorry i should have rephrased that. I can get the hcg to run while on the cycle just did not know if i really needed it. I know it used to "get your nuts back" so to speak.

Bonez how does it look to you?


Fine. Id recommend frontloading the T. Shortening it to 10 weeks or 8. Moving the dbol to either th emiddle of the cycle or the end to bridge to PCT. And absolutely getting an AI. Nolvadex isnt used on cycle except as a last resort.


so something like letrozole? this may be a dumb question but what do you mean by front loading?


Letrozole is fine. Front loading means injecting an amount of the drug that will bring the levels up to what would be consistent with ongoing use, instead of letting the levels gradually rise.


what else can i use besides letrozole? so if im going to use 500mg a week should i start with on 500mg shot? or am i misunderstanding this?


Aromasin and Adex are alternatives. Adex is popular and pretty easy to dose. Yes, keeping things simple by using 500mg in your first shot and continuing with 250mg shots E3D is fine. You can work out the correct frontload using a formula based on the halflife, and in fact I'm going to add a thread with that information to my sticky right now.


Assuming a half-life of 5 days for Test E you would frontload with 500mg * 5 / 7 + 250mg, which is approximately 607mg. You can use roidcalc.com to play around with doses and see how it affects blood levels.


The "absence of a recommendation for an AI"? Why would he need it. Let me rephrase that. He will not need it at those doses. Yes, he could take an AI but then he could be taking a lot of other things, such as B6 and/or test prop in the first two weeks. But, as pointed out, the idea is to keep the first cycle simple to see how his body reacts to a straight testo cycle. In case you have forgotten this is his FIRST cycle. A bit of water bloat will not hurt, and there will not be a lot of it. In fact, he will probably gain and keep almost the same amount of lean mass on a 300mg/week cycle, especially at his age.

Same goes for front loading. Not necessary on a first cycle. Even the Dbol, as first mentioned, is not necessary. Yes, it will kick things along but again, not nceessary for a first cycle.

Let me know when you are voted in as King, then I will take a back seat. (Apologies for the Monty Python reference.)


Using an AI isn't necessary. Frontloading isn't necessary. Looking around you isn't necessary when walking into a busy road either, what's your point?


Youre a jackass.

Plenty of people have gotten gyno from 710mg of aromatizeable steroids per week.


Ok is Arimadex the same as Adex? And what would the dosages be for that? Or is there a site that i can find that out on? I dont have a problem getting it and i may not need it but better safe than sorry. Thanks for all the great help guys.


Arimidex = Adex. A typical starting dose is 0.25mg EOD, but you will have to experiment.


There's a certain way of doing things. People should take an AI, especially if it's their first cycle, and they're using dbol.

If he wants to keep things simple he could switch out the dbol for testosterone. Right now the cycle is 500mg test per week, and 210mg of dbol per week. 1000mg of testosterone per week might be better, and it'll be safer. He could also start at 750mg of testosterone, and up the dose part way through the cycle if he wants.

Remember you can't drink while using dbol, and before you take any medication, make sure it doesn't stress the liver. Oral steroids can be dangerous if used incorrectly.


That is what the Nolva is for, Jackass.


Nolva isn't an AI. Are you proposing then at the first symtpoms of gyno he just end the cycle and take Nolva?


So as long as he doesnt get bitch tits everything is good? What about if his e2 rises to the point of excessive water retention that blows up his neck to create a double chin. Or it rises high enough to affect him sexually or emotionally. Ya know what forget this. There is enough quality info around I dont need to type this. A FIRST TIMER should be keeping his e2 in the low-normal range. Experienced users can decided if elevated e2 is something they desire.

And one other thing. You plan to have him run nolvadex to prevent gyno throughout the cycle. Then just keep using the nolva for PCT? Good plan (not at all). So 10-14 weeks straight of nolvadex. Great plan.


thanks thats what i thought. From what everyone is saying and correct me if im wrong. I need to take the adex only when gyno symptoms show up? and then stay on it throughout my cycle? And also i can only get them in 1mg tablets. i dont know how easy it would be to get them into quarters. Again thanks for all the info?


No, you take the adex before any gyno symptoms show up. The point is to prevent gyno. Get a pill cutter to divide your pills.