T Nation

First Cycle - High Level Athlete/Martial Artist


So this is going to be my first cycle and I'm looking for a little bit of information/advice...anything will help really...1st a little about me;

  • I'm 27 years old, 5'10", 185 lbs. & 11% bodyfat
  • I'm a life long athlete, was a division I swimmer, who has been training martial arts (muay thai, boxing, jiu-jitsu, etc) for about 8 years. I train 6 days a week w/ 4 of those being two-a-days that include strength & conditioning circuits: band work, plyometrics, olympic power movements (cleans, snatches, deadlifts, etc.) some sprint work & sport specific movements (padwork, db shadow boxing/burnouts etc.), Muay Thai, Jiu-Jitsu, and anywhere from 15-30 miles of road work a week.

I've more or less seemed to have hit a plateau at about 10.5% bodyfat. I want to basically lean out (below 10%, preferably below 9% bodyfat) yet maintain strength gains...mass is not important at all, in fact I don't want much more mass (an added 10-15 lbs would be alright but no more and I would prefer as little weight gain as possible)as I can fight anywhere from 155 lbs. - 170 lbs.

The Cycle that has been proposed is as follows, the duration is 8-10 weeks:

30-50 mg Stanozolol daily
1 ml Sustanon 250 weekly

What do you guys think? I've also read about stacking the Winstrol with Equipoise...thoughts, comments, advice...thanks in advance.

P.S. above is a picture from a couple weeks ago when I was about to start my cut for a fight, I was 184 lbs. at the time...this morning I was 186 & pretty much look the exact same.


Before anyone answers, will you be tested at any point?


I won't be tested at anytime during the next 6 mos.; in 6 mos there is a possibility that I might but even then it'll be random...good chance that I won't be tested anytime in the next 9-12 months.

Between fights I like to do triathlons and road races so no testing to worry about there either.


A quick, disjointed comment...

Sust needs to be shot more frequently. Check out the shortest ester length in sust... For your purpose, any low dose form of test is fine, though. Stanozolol is definitely used by a lot of combatants. Not a fave of mine, but it'll do the job without adding mass if you keep your diet in check. Anavar is another option.

Stacking the stanozolol with EQ isn't wise. You'd still need something to contribute a little estrogen given the fact that they aren't aromatic cpds, and EQ itself often enhances appetite, which you don't need at this stage.

In theory tren would be great if you had some prior experience cycling, but regardless, it's probably a no-go for testing reasons. Its metabolites certainly hang around for a long time post-cycle.

You have enough time to start taking peptides, though. GHRP-2/6 and a GHRH (preferably mod(1-29) GRF) can help you lean up gradually.

Of course there is probably of plenty of critique or advice that can be offered wrt diet but you didn't provide any details.


^^^ thanks...from what I can tell the shortest ester length in sust is approximately one day with 10 days being the longest...the other 2 are roughly 3-5 day half-lives...

The diet is in check and is pretty clean...there are a few people at the gym that I've connected with that help out with the diet as they are nutritionists, dietitians, etc...

Could you tell me a little bit more about peptides...off to do a little research of my own but any first hand info would help out tremendously...




How long is your cycle going to be? And why sust when there is prop and enth?


The cycle will be 10 weeks...Sust b/c that is what was recommended...I'm assuming it was recommended b/c it is to be administered in 1 mL doses once per week and there are four esters of test in sustenon w/ half lives ranging from 1-10 days (one short term, one long term, and two with mid-length half lives)...

What is prop and enth?

As I said, this is my first cycle and I'm doing a lot of research as we speak but still don't know very much...


They are short forms for Propionate and Enanthate, testosterone "prop" would be better IMO to keep stable blood levels if you only want 250mg of test a week. this way your not messing around with half lives, and if you are only taking one shot in a week then the first ester will be gone by the next shot so you will not have much more then a trt dose of test throughout out the week so there is not much use. What weeks are you using the winny? What is your pct? btw if you don't know why someone recommends something you should ask or do some research yourself.


I am asking and I am doing my own research...hence the post as well as the inquiries...this is not the end all be all of my information...simply an avenue (albeit probably the best for experienced answers and advice). The Winny & test will be used for 10 weeks & pct is as follows:

Wk 13: Nolvadex 20 mg 2xdaily
Wk 14: Nolvadex 20 mg daily

I'm also considering peptides; in particular GRF mod(1-29) [100 mcg 3xdaily] and Ipamorelin (instead of GHRP-2 b/c of the lack of cortisol and prolactin production) [100 mcg 3xdaily]...I've been sifting through a ton of information (thanks whotookmyname) & am seriously considering the peptides as well. Anyone else have experience with this?


GHRP-2, GHRP-6, CJC 1295 can all help you, and are legal in the US. All will help healing/recovery/connective tissue strength, as well as some performance benefit.
For your purposes you may want to avoid GHRP-6 because of the hunger. CJC-1295 was suggested to me by someone much more knowledgable than myself.

Also CJC-1295 has a longer half life, and can be taken every day, or every other day according to the guy that advised me. Unfortunately I couldn't afford it along with other crap.
As far as I know these are all undetectable and very.

I am currently using GHRP-6 to heal an injury and I can notice a difference in recovery already.

Winny increases the risk of tendon rupture, so I would use anavar instead, which actually strengthens tendons. You are in a high impact sport, so I would think reducing your risk of tearing shit would be good.
Also, you are wanting to use winny for the full 10 weeks. This would be better with anavar as it is less toxic.
Limit winny to 6 weeks normally.

Var will give you good strength gains with little size.

Your PCT should be longer than 2 weeks.

For ten weeks, enanthate would be easier... although prop could be used as well.

Prop (and consequently Sustanon) should be injected at least EOD, with ED shots preferable in order to maintain steady levels.
With enanthate injections 2x a week would be good.

Prop= Testosterone Propionate.
Enanthate= Testosterone Enanthate


Sust is basically 90mg of prop + 160mg of test-e, and it usually costs the same amount per vial. If you use it like you would use 100mg/mL prop, it's much better than prop. It's cheaper and the isocaproate and decanoate provide a sort of "backdrop."


Im not sure were you get your prop of test e but its more cost effective to do one or the other IMO,and single esters are easier to deal with.


I don't understand the sust hate. Sust is the best, if you don't mind injecting ED or EOD. You don't need to frontload it, and you can use a higher dose on workout days.

A 10mL vial of prop has 1 gram in it. A 10mL vial of sust has 2.5 grams in it. Unless a vial of sust costs 2.5 times more than a vial of prop, sust is cheaper.

Sust is not more difficult than prop to deal with. Just inject it every day (like prop), and you'll have stable blood levels.

1mL of sust has 30mg of prop in it and 60mg of phenylprop (which is the same as prop). 30+60=90mg. 1mL of prop has 100mg of prop in it. 1 mL of sust does the same thing that 1mL of prop does, except that it isn't painful, and you also get a bonus long lasting testosterone dose. The only time you should use prop is as a bridge from the end of a cycle to PCT.

It's formulated at 100mg/mL, so that in and of itself makes it useless if you're on a intermediate or advanced cycle. If you're on 750mg per week of test, you'll go through almost a bottle a week.


Looks like Sust is going to be the way to go...still in the process of doing a little more research on it though...I've also been contemplating Winstrol vs Anavar and I think that the Winstrol is going to be my best bet in achieving the goals that I've set out (basically, I want to get strong, ripped, and still be able to run half a marathon or go hard for 5-7 5 min rds. mma & or 15 3 min rds of boxing;)

What do you guys think of the PCT...it seems that with the proposed cycle that the nolvadex is all that I'll need...the amount of test is minimal so no bridge from cycle to PCT is needed...at least that is my thinking...

Update on the diet is to come but the last week has pretty much looked like this:

Wake up: 3 hard boiled egg whites, train.

After training: Protein shake, scrambled eggs (4 whites, 1 yolk)

mid morning: salad (romaine lettuce, olives, tomatoes, mushrooms, balsamic vinegar)

noon: Whole wheat pasta with a little sauce

2ish: another salad

4ish: Grilled Chicken breast, a small amount of wheat pasta (no sauce)


After training: Salmon & steamed vegggies (broccoli & asparagus this week, I like to mix in brussel sprouts as well)


I'm also currently taking a few supplements: Multi-Vitamin, Wheat Grass, Super Chlorella, Cinnamon, B-Complex, Glucosamine/Chondroitin/MSM, Shark Cartilage, Fish Oil, Green Tea Extract & of course the protein...

When I start the cycle what changes should be made, if any, to my diet & supplement regime?

Actually, are there any obvious changes that should be made now?


OK, well if you are going to do sust then you had better inject at least every other day. One time a week, or even 2x a week is not enough by far. With AAS, stable blood levels is the name of the game, and to do so you always inject according to the half life of the shortest ester in the mixture.

Eg: shortest ester half life = 48 hrs then inject at least every other day or do every day. Every day would be better for stable circulating levels, but a pain in the ass.

Short ester = 6 days half life then you could inject every 3 days or 2x a week.

I also think you are seriously discounting the aggravating effect of winstrol on your tendons and connective tissue. It could work well, or you could suffer from tendon pain for 10 weeks that keeps you from being able to train as hard as you require...


Would you suggest Sust eod & Anavar? Or something completely different?

Also, what about the peptides? [Ipomorelin & GRF mod(1-29)]

Would the peptides help with the tendons/connective tissue aggravations that are of concern with Winstrol?


A few things...

Legal? Well, not specifically illegal for research purposes, not approved for human use. So at the moment they fall into a gray area, and the seller is running a far greater risk than the buyer, who might have his goods confiscated.

CJC1295's long half-life is what one wants to specifically avoid, hence the mod GRF(1-29) and its shorter duration of activity. We want to ultimately avoid longer, systemic IGF releases, as it can be cancer promoting, and in no way represents the endogenous GH release pattern. That's one of the benefits of BBB's e3d IV GH protocol, for example.

As for detection, the GHRPs and their metabolites can now be detected by mass spec, but this is just emerging and is not being actively tested for yet. In the abstract, they mentioned metabolites being successfully picked up after 20 hours, so if I had to guess, 72 hours would probably be enough time for it to clear.


Well, if your goal is primarily to lean up while gaining strength, then I think that sus eod + anavar is probably a good way to go. It is simple, straightforward, and relatively side effect free. Not to mention anavar is great for strength. Injexting the sust everyday would be better imo.

Tren (previously mentioned), while probably the best compound ever in terms of serious strength boost while simultaneously leaning out AND putting on muscle, is typically associated with some rather serious conditioning problems (not serious like illness, but like it seems to empty your "gas tank" for work capacity pretty damn fast). That is definitely not what you want for a sport like mma.

Oh, and before I forget you could really use some more protein in your diet. It's definitely clean and a weight cutting diet, but not enough protein IMO. Thre of your six meals have no protein source in them! Both your salads need dead animal with them. Or at least put some with your noon pasta.

I also think you are wasting a cycle if you are only going 250 mg of test a week. I understand the desire not to put on a lot of weight that you will need to cut down further later. But I really think you could use 400mg. Weight control comes with your diet, even on steroids. That is still a very mild cycle.

I don't know enough about all the peptides to advise you on them.