T Nation

First Cycle Help?


#1

I’m 26 5’10" jump around 192-197 and sit around 10% bodyfat been lifting 5x a week for past 8 years. Looking to get cut and maybe add on lean muscle. I’ve used orals in past but never seen to much of a change. I’ve looked into clen but also read some about tren and test cycle. Suggestions and doses would be much appreciated!


#2

Interesting. If your stats are accurate (and I have no reason to doubt that they are) then you’re already pretty lean with what I’m assuming is some really solid muscle mass. If you want to get leaner you would generally do a test/tren or test/tren/mast cycle. But it would be your first one and it’s not a great idea to run multiple drugs on that maiden voyage.

I don’t know, man. Low test, high mast for 10 weeks? Or maybe just standard first cycle protocol of test only and just accept that you’ll gain a little bf while you build a ton of nice muscle? I’m sure some other guys will have better ideas than I do.


#3

I’m going to give you happy medium based on what ironyuppie advised, and I agree with his recommendations.

I’d run 500mg if test for 6 weeks, then add Masteron at 400mg per week along with that for the last 6 weeks.


#4

I know my post count here is low, but if you go to most any board, they’ll have the sticky thread about first cycles. Apply the KISS principle. Go T only, run it for 8-12 weeks, and scale up as needed through the cycle. In other words, don’t jump in at 500mg as most prescribe. See how 250 treats you for a couple weeks and scale up as needed based on when results stall.

Get a good idea how plain old T treats you. Have an AI and some Clo on hand for E control and PCT. This WILL NOT be your only and last cycle. You know it’s true. So learn your body and how it reacts to things. One variable at a time.


#5

Ya I stay somewhat lean just wanting to see what I look like at maybe 5-7% bf again like I was in high school and college. Then I plan to add mass and strength over winter. I work in oil field so always physical work then lift after. What is good pct for any of the suggestions?


#6

Nolva for four weeks at 40/40/20/20 works fine. Some guys do that with Clomid at 50/50/25/25. I usually approach things with the “fewer unknown drugs the better” attitude. But a two-SERM pct has been a standard for a while and it likely isn’t going to hurt you. But Clomid has a higher incidence of side effects, hence the Nolva-only suggestion.


#7

One more question for now. How often and where to pin with each suggested? Most likely just do test for a first but for future how often and where for test, tren, mast, a AI, clo, and nolva. And how long to wait to start the AI and nova? Thanks for the help guys.


#8

enanthate 2x a week

prop/ace EOD


#9

How often for everything tho and where is best to inject? test/tren or test/tren/mast cycle and the AI and how long to wait for the nolva?


#10

No tren on your first cycle. That’s a red line, man. I know you said it’s for another cycle, but I’m just reiterating that it is a very bad idea.

Injections are easy. Glutes and/or quads. Some guys do delts. I do glutes only because I don’t feel them at all and there is zero pip (post injection pain), but a quad injection cripples me for days. My body doesn’t like one thing but it’s fne with the other. Everyone is a little different.

The first google result for “ventrogluteal” is a step-by-step instruction for nurses administering injections into that site. It’s absolutely idiot-proof. I almost always do ventrogluteal, but I will occasionally do dorsogluteal as well. Neither cause any discomfort or lingering pain.

PCT start time is dependent on what esters are attached to the various AAS that you’re taking. For a simple test e cycle you start your pct two weeks after your last injection. And look, we could get pretty deep in the weeds discussing whether or not two weeks is enough of a clearance time (based on the accumulation of half-lives of each injection over the length of the cycle) but the reality is that tons and tons of guys have done it this way for many years and have recovered without incident. So I say don’t reinvent the wheel.


#11

I like tries, shoulders, traps.

Will do legs, glutes if needed

no tren first cycle

mast would be ok but not needed. I still say test only first cycle.


#12

Check out spotinjections.com

That will give you PLENTY of sites for admin.


#13

Ok been taking 200mg test cypionate 2x a week for 4 weeks now. Kept lower does to be safe. I don’t see any changes at all yet which I expect to see it kick in around this time for results. Does this sound right?


#14

It can take 4-5 weeks before anything meaningful happens. Do you feel anything at all? Any changes?


#15

That’s what I was figuring and only thing different is lil more stamina in the gym is all.


#16

Are we sure you have legit AAS? Also, with your comments about not seeing much from orals, perhaps you fall into that “C” responder class. Without an AI, there should have been at least some water retention and cell loading that would have a corresponding weight gain?

Your mention of physical labor also makes me wonder if you are eating enough. If you truly are as lean as you say, and have a physical labor job too. I would guess that caloric needs are not being met/surpassed.


#17

I’m taken nolva on cycle I’d have to look at how much later today to give a fir sure amount. And I taken in around 4500 healthy calories a day and 300-350g of protein. Should I just up the calories and protien some more and see how that goes? I feel good with energy and everything is a plus tho


#18

Well…it sounds on point. I can’t/won’t tell you what to do, but only what I’d do. After 4 weeks, your body will most likely have made the adjustments it’s going to make for the altered hormonal profile. So I’d probably bump up 200mg/wk and see what happens from there. Provided bp stayed the same, I would go that route and then evaluate again in a couple weeks.


#19

New here, what’s AI & Clo? Also what PCT do you recommend?


#20

Ok I’ll pry just to 500 a week and go from there starting next Monday. I appreciate the help!