T Nation

First Cycle -Help From Vets


Hey guys, I'm starting my fist cycle in about 2-3 weeks want a little critique from you vets out there.

First off I'm 6'3" 185lbs and sit at about 5-7% body fat year around. I'm a hard gainer and can lose weight off of the popeyes and birthday cake diet, I know some of guys out there will loath me for this but what can i say genetics are a bitch. Take in about 3 weightgainer shakes a day inbetween meals and eat realy clean. Chicken fish steak vegies with every meal ect. You get the point. I workout 5-6 days a week.

Anyways on to the good stuff. Here is what my cycle panning out to look like.

week 1
sust 1000mg
eq 800mg

week 2-9
sust 500mg
eq 400mg

nolva 20mg/day whole cycle and
clomid 50mg/day weeks 12-14

now I was really tied up inbetween using dbol to kickoff the cycle but dont want the bloat plus i'm not gonna lie I'm kind of vein and since its gonna be the summer I'd rather have that grainy look without the acne that comes with the bol so I'm thinking about switching that to some winny. I can get in it 20mgs tabs 100tabs in a bottle for me.

Now my question to you guys is should i startout the cycle with the winny or tie it up. I know it would really be better off for recovery and keeping my gains to tie it up. Also the last of my supplies getting here soon but couldn't get a supplier for the clomid. What do you guys think the best legit website for the money is?

Further more I'm a little cuncerned about the joint pain from the winny should the eq help that out a lot. I will keep a post of how the cycle pans out with some before and after pics I'll put up the befores here in a day or two. gotta get my camera out and working. ANy other sugesttions? Trevor


Most people here will tell you to stay away from steroids at 6'3" and 185 lbs. With that said your genetic top end has not been reached, guaranteed.

I'd venture to say gains will be minimal and lost shortly after. Your tendons will take a beating as well since it sounds like you have no base at all.


I knew I was bound to here that from someone. I bench around 315 and squat about 365 and can keep up with anyone I've ever trained with. I've bulked up to 205 before but my body just likes it at 185. Most people say I look about 200 215 no one ever guesses I weigh what I do. I can not train for months and pick up and run a six min mile and can do 32 consecutive pullups, lookin for over fourty while I'm on this cycle.

My base is there and i allready have most of my gear. I know i could make more progess naturaly before i hit my genetic peak, but not going to wait like just about everyone that is on here or that I've talked to. PT is something that you can always improve and as far as i am concerned is a lifetime deal. So of course i can build more and get a stronger base but I'm doin the cycle regardless, and whould appriciate adquite advaice rather than your not ready. But i do appriciate the concern.


Well, this doesn't do much for you since you've already got most of your stuff, but I have never seen the point of sust. Just more complex that test needs to be IMO.

If you've already got it then nevermind, but if you've got an opportunity to change your mind, get test E or C.


yeah I allready have the sust. I have gotten a lot of mixed reviews from poeple on sust some love it some hate it. For my second cylce I probably will try test cyp but since this will be my first cycle i think i will see measurable gains from anything. What i was more curious to hear about was opinions on the dbol verses the winny right now I'm thinking winny 60mg/day for the last 5 weeks but I can get the dbol so cheap that I'm almost inclined to do both.


Bump Zell. I think sust is a waste of money.

  • pick up some d-bol and use it as a jumpstart weeks 1-4 @ 20-25 mg ED.
  • i like frontloads, but with the oral jumpstart, you can lose it...which will allow you to run the sust and EQ for 10 weeks @ 500/400.
  • swap that sust for a single estered test if you can...enan or cyp.
  • 20 mg nolva ED is overkill...10 EOD would be ok. adjust as necessary. or better yet, get an AI for during.
  • don't bother with the winny
  • if you plan on running a PCT......... then at least know that you will need 3-4 full weeks of clearance time with those 2 compounds. personally, i'd wait 4 weeks before starting your clomid.

besides the above...i'd say you should crack 200 pounds before thinking about AAS....but you'll do what you want.

good luck.


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


i am by no means a gear vet, but juice's suggestions above is solid info, good luck with whatever you decide



Since you have not learned how to eat enough to grow, you are never going to keep any gains.

Since you are a "hardgainer" who would you eat clean?


counted wrong on that my bad i meant starting the clomid on the 13th week but weeks 12-14 would be three weeks 12, 13, 14 or rather as it was ment to be 13-15. I will do 3 full weeks hands down.


My suggestion is never mind about the clomid if you have nolvadex as it will do the same thing with less side effects. Overall You should invest in some arimidex instead of the nolva during your cycle, but not the end of the world. Try and run your eq a week or two short of when you end your test, as it will make recovery easier. Other than that....

Everyone knows My stance on steroid use - I trained natty for 11 years before taking the plunge, and when I did, I was an expert on nutrition and training, and could have graced the covers of any fitness mag - If you are not at that level, don't get your expectations too high because the juice is most definitely not a magic pill!

Final advice is lift clean and with perfect form. It will be so easy to injure yourself on your first cycle, and the eq that you are doing may mask a lot of the injuries untill you come off, in which case you'll lose everything you gained due to the fact of missed training day e.t.c from injury.


[quote]Zell959 wrote:

Sorry for the hijack but what the hell does IMO mean. I see it in every thread?


in my opinion. Check the steroid newbie thread, there is a whole list of abreviations that have been defined.


been trying to figure out how to post a picture that i just took on this post for the last half an hour but my reply page does not have an attatch pic or browse button. So i just made it my avatar. guess that will have to do for now.
In consideration of what all I've herd so far this is my new plan. About the same just with a few modifications. You could also take a look at my pic and tell me what you guys think would be the best cycle, and or diet plan to follow while on.

Weeks 1-4
sust 500mg
eq 400mg
dbol 40mg/day

weeks 5-7
sust 500mg
eq 400mg

weeks 8-10
sust 500mg
eq 400mg
winny 60mg/ed

for pct keeping the nova 20mg throughout cycle. Then waiting 3 weeks for clerance then two weeks of clomid at 50mg a day then two weeks of nova after that. One question. should i keep on the nova until i start the clomid or be off of everything? Even considering HCG do you guys like this better for pct then nova and clomid or could it be added into it for better recovery than nova and clomid alone?


you'll have to use the physique and performance photo forum for the picture posting.


No-go on S from me; waste of $... KISS (KeepItSimpleS): Stick with the basics. At your height & base u seem 2 have you'll need a eral kick with a REAL stach: TestE/C plus DecaD and if you want to step it up a notch, Dianabol. Your heavy lifts are unnecessary. Go for intensity & muscle gain? Hard, Fast & heavy. Your scrawny 4 ur height so with a stepped up diet & sup programme yuo should bulk 20# if not more without adding fat on your 1st stack.